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jl07045
Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Posts: 1527
Location: Riga, Latvia
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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:36 pm
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Echo_City wrote: | How does an excerpt from the song Crawling by Linkin Park have anything to do with the expiration of a sandwich? |
In 4chan (and apparently elsewhere since /a/ hates youtube comments) that song is associated with annoying emo-ness and grimdark. Kirito wears all black and is a loner for no good reason that's why the song has been kinda attached to him and stuff that happens around him.
Also lurk moar.
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Echo_City
Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Posts: 1236
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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:50 pm
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jl07045 wrote: |
Echo_City wrote: | How does an excerpt from the song Crawling by Linkin Park have anything to do with the expiration of a sandwich? |
In 4chan (and apparently elsewhere since /a/ hates youtube comments) that song is associated with annoying emo-ness and grimdark. Kirito wears all black and is a loner for no good reason that's why the song has been kinda attached to him and stuff that happens around him.
Also lurk moar. |
Thanks. I understand it now, but I still don't get the humor. Most of these 4chan-inspired memes don't "click" with me, it's like the Magic Eye book of the internet: I can stare at it for hours, but I still can't discern WTF I'm supposed to be seeing
Quote: | The very first episode showed that the villain announced his plan on the news. It's widely known. |
Not exactly. The first episode shows the game's creator showing news reports to the players in the game. We don't know if they're real or if they're just something else that he created. He created a whole virtual world, I think it is reasonable to say that he could fake a few articles and videos. I also don't remember any players commenting on the sudden deaths of the 200-some-odd people the creator reports were killed when family members of those SAO players ignored his demands and ripped off the NerveGear. Perhaps he just made that up for dramatic effect?
In the first episode, the creator also says that "once your HP drops to 0, there is no way to revive you", something we now know is false thanks to the one-off episode dedicated to finding the "Phoenix Down" that can revive a character as long as it is used within 10 seconds of their death. If he lied once, who is to say that he didn't lie twice?
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Fencedude5609
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5088
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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:04 pm
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Echo_City wrote: | He created a whole virtual world, I think it is reasonable to say that he could fake a few articles and videos. I also don't remember any players commenting on the sudden deaths of the 200-some-odd people the creator reports were killed when family members of those SAO players ignored his demands and ripped off the NerveGear. Perhaps he just made that up for dramatic effect? |
Even if this is true, its completely irrelevant to the story at hand. Kirito and the others have no way of knowing the truth, and thus neither do we. It also quite literally makes no difference whatsoever.
That being said, you're gonna have to provide a plausible explanation for why things remain the way they are if your version is correct.
Quote: | In the first episode, the creator also says that "once your HP drops to 0, there is no way to revive you", something we now know is false thanks to the one-off episode dedicated to finding the "Phoenix Down" that can revive a character as long as it is used within 10 seconds of their death. If he lied once, who is to say that he didn't lie twice? |
Thats not quite the same scale.
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egoist
Joined: 20 Jun 2008
Posts: 7762
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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:11 pm
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jl07045 wrote: | In 4chan (and apparently elsewhere since /a/ hates youtube comments) that song is associated with annoying emo-ness and grimdark. Kirito wears all black and is a loner for no good reason that's why the song has been kinda attached to him and stuff that happens around him.
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Hahaha. I see they still got some sense of humour going there. I can only imagine the song and Kirino fighting in slow motion.
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Blood-
![](/bbs/phpBB2/images/subscriber-silver.png) Bargain Hunter
Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23996
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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:44 pm
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My memory's pretty bad, but I thought that the Phoenix Down could only be used to revive character pets?
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Fencedude5609
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5088
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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:45 pm
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Blood- wrote: | My memory's pretty bad, but I thought that the Phoenix Down could only be used to revive character pets? |
You are thinking of two completely different items.
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Blood-
![](/bbs/phpBB2/images/subscriber-silver.png) Bargain Hunter
Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23996
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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:48 pm
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Yep, my memory is every bit as bad as I assumed.
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Echo_City
Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Posts: 1236
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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:07 pm
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Fencedude5609 wrote: |
Echo_City wrote: | He created a whole virtual world, I think it is reasonable to say that he could fake a few articles and videos. I also don't remember any players commenting on the sudden deaths of the 200-some-odd people the creator reports were killed when family members of those SAO players ignored his demands and ripped off the NerveGear. Perhaps he just made that up for dramatic effect? |
Even if this is true, its completely irrelevant to the story at hand. Kirito and the others have no way of knowing the truth, and thus neither do we. It also quite literally makes no difference whatsoever.
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Perhaps it isn't relevant to the "grand scheme of things", but that's not why I mentioned it. I only mentioned it to give an alternate path of thought to Clarste who complained that the show answered all our complaints about the passage of time, and that the complainers simply missed it because they weren't paying attention.
As far as the story goes, as presented in the anime as of episode 8, things could be going at "face value", how the game creator said they will, but I like the more plausible alternate explanations, the ones that eliminate pesky questions like "if they're in the game for 2 years, how were they kept alive?". Maybe several thousand people were moved to hospitals within ~3 days of the news announcement (assuming here that it was really made), hooked to life support & an outlet before the NerveGear batteries expired, and kept alive by benefactors for years, but while that is certainly possible I don't think it is very probable. Which is why I like the explanations that eliminate that scenario. My favorite of those sort of explanations is that the creator lied about the whole premise, that no one truly dies, and that time passes much faster in-game than it does in real life, as in a dream, so the 2+ years of the show could be mere seconds of "real world" time.
The show itself doesn't seem to shoot explanations like that one down, and IMO they make a helluva lot more sense than the "face value" one. I suppose that I could try and spoil the show for myself by checking the source material, but then I wouldn't want to watch the show as much, and there's no guarantee that the anime will be 100% faithful to the source material anyhow, is there?
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That being said, you're gonna have to provide a plausible explanation for why things remain the way they are if your version is correct.
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It sounds pretty plausible to me. Everything we see in SAO, except for brief moments in episode 1, is seen transpiring in the game world. The game creator can do whatever he pleases in this world, so anything therein goes, no? Kirito and his fellow gamers have no way of knowing if those newscasts shown were true or false, and neither do we. Neither they nor us can confirm that people truly die. All they see, and all we see, is a psychedelic explosion of color and the disappearance of an avatar. I haven't seen anything in 8 episodes that rules out the possibility that people whose avatars disappear don't simply "wake up" in the real world. Have any of you?
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Fencedude5609
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5088
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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:12 pm
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Echo_City wrote: |
The show itself doesn't seem to shoot explanations like that one down, and IMO they make a helluva lot more sense than the "face value" one. I suppose that I could try and spoil the show for myself by checking the source material, but then I wouldn't want to watch the show as much, and there's no guarantee that the anime will be 100% faithful to the source material anyhow, is there? |
It only makes more sense because you've decided that the given explanation is wrong, for...whatever reason.
As for adhering to the source material, thus far its been very, very faithful.
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I haven't seen anything in 8 episodes that rules out the possibility that people whose avatars disappear don't simply "wake up" in the real world. Have any of you? |
I haven't seen anything to suggest they don't, and if they do, so what? What actually is happening is irrelevant, the only thing that matters right now is what the players in the game THINK is happening.
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Chagen46
Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 4377
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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:17 pm
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I haven't seen anything to suggest they don't, and if they do, so what? What actually is happening is irrelevant, the only thing that matters right now is what the players in the game THINK is happening. |
And maybe some of us think the story could've been better if the author didn't just focus on Kirito.
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Fencedude5609
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5088
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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:19 pm
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Chagen46 wrote: |
And maybe some of us think the story could've been better if the author didn't just focus on Kirito. |
While thats a valid opinion to hold, its incredibly non-useful when it comes to actually discussing the show.
Hell, I think the series would be vastly more interesting from Asuna's perspective, but I don't bring it up much because its fricking irrelevant.
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dtm42
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
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Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:07 pm
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Echo_City wrote: | My favorite of those sort of explanations is that the creator lied about the whole premise, that no one truly dies, and that time passes much faster in-game than it does in real life, as in a dream, so the 2+ years of the show could be mere seconds of "real world" time. |
Even if everyone had Brain-Burst installed - and that's impossible, for reasons which are obvious if you know about Accel World and how the two series are connected - then the first year of game-time alone would have been over eight hours in the real world. After that amount of time many families would have forcibly removed the players from the headsets.
Given that almost two years have passed in the game that equates to over sixteen hours of real-world time. The authorities would have unplugged most of the players by then. Especially once it became known from those players waking up that the players still in the game genuinely believed they were trapped.
Think about it for a moment. If players who died in the game then woke up in the real world, don't you think they'd then say it was safe to unplug everyone? Two thousand "died" in the first game month alone, and they would have raised the alarm and gotten the rest of the players unplugged right then and there.
Given this, it is clear that you have not thought through your plan which has fundamental and extremely obvious flaws.
We have to assume that players who are being killed in the game are either being killed in real life, or transported to another server where they cannot interact with the players still remaining. Given the sheer implausibility of powerful microwave emitters being installed into headsets in the first place (not to mention the further implausibility that the emitters must kill instantaneously as otherwise headsets would just be whisked off the patient), the latter option is clearly superior.
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Echo_City
Joined: 03 Apr 2011
Posts: 1236
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Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:37 am
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dtm42 wrote: |
Echo_City wrote: | My favorite of those sort of explanations is that the creator lied about the whole premise, that no one truly dies, and that time passes much faster in-game than it does in real life, as in a dream, so the 2+ years of the show could be mere seconds of "real world" time. |
Even if everyone had Brain-Burst installed - and that's impossible, for reasons which are obvious if you know about Accel World and how the two series are connected - then the first year of game-time alone would have been over eight hours in the real world. After that amount of time many families would have forcibly removed the players from the headsets.
Given that almost two years have passed in the game that equates to over sixteen hours of real-world time. The authorities would have unplugged most of the players by then. Especially once it became known from those players waking up that the players still in the game genuinely believed they were trapped.
Think about it for a moment. If players who died in the game then woke up in the real world, don't you think they'd then say it was safe to unplug everyone? Two thousand "died" in the first game month alone, and they would have raised the alarm and gotten the rest of the players unplugged right then and there.
Given this, it is clear that you have not thought through your plan which has fundamental and extremely obvious flaws.
We have to assume that players who are being killed in the game are either being killed in real life, or transported to another server where they cannot interact with the players still remaining. Given the sheer implausibility of powerful microwave emitters being installed into headsets in the first place (not to mention the further implausibility that the emitters must kill instantaneously as otherwise headsets would just be whisked off the patient), the latter option is clearly superior. |
Whoa, what now?! You're bringing in tech from other shows and assuming that the tech in SAO follows its rules?! That makes 0 sense, and you know it. I don't remember Accel World being lauded for its plotting, so comparisons to it at this juncture do not foster hope for SAO.
There's nothing in SAO 1-7 that either overtly confirms or denies any set ratio between real world time and game time. I don't know where you're getting this 1 year in game = 8 hours of real world time equivalency, but nothing in episodes 1-7 of SAO corroborates this in any way, shape, or form and thus it is not germane. I don't recall ever even hearing "Brain Burst" in SAO, furthering its irrelevancy here. You, like me, can postulate about a time discrepancy using your ratio, though you seem to have already ruled it out as possible, but given the evidence presented you can't in good faith use it as a factual cornerstone of your argument, as you have attempted to do.
In SAO, the people who "died" could wake up in the real world, but as soon as they're out of the game, they would loose this "hyper time" concept. Before the former players who wake up could even take off the headset, let alone tell anyone about the game, there's nothing that says that even as many as 10,000 years couldn't have passed in the game. My chosen explanation fits this. Being "transported to an isolated server" could also work, though that's the more boring explanation which is why I didn't gravitate towards it.
If there isn't a wonky time-perception discrepancy between the game world and the real world then there is no explanation for the continued premise that is anything short of shallow, contrived, and frankly insulting. Not only would the time discrepancy cover the implausibility of thousands being put on life support within a short time period and kept there for a very long one, it would also give a fine explanation for the complaints in the ANN review about not showing how people being trapped in the game affects the real world, as it wouldn't affect it at all. This could also help explain the poorly developed"villain", the game creator, otherwise known as "that guy who was forgotten about by everyone in SAO after he gave his speech for at least 6 episodes".
I'm willing to ignore the lackluster first 7 episodes of SAO and focus on the remaining 2/3rds or so of the show, but I'm only willing to do so if I have some assurance that the show won't degrade into a Fractale-style cluster of nonsense by the end. A time discrepancy is a step in the right direction for that.
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Megiddo
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 8360
Location: IL
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Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:52 am
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Echo_City wrote: |
There's nothing in SAO 1-7 that either overtly confirms or denies any set ratio between real world time and game time. |
Eh, Kleine seemed to have a good idea on when the pizza guy would come, and it would be hard for such a new player like him to know that if there wasn't a 1:1 ratio of the passage of time between SAO and the outside world.
And yeah, there is a whole lot of nonsense coming up. You have to remember that this is basically some dude's wish-fulfillment fanfiction that was published because Accel World got somewhat popular.
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dtm42
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
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Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:05 am
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Echo_City wrote: | Whoa, what now?! You're bringing in tech from other shows and assuming that the tech in SAO follows its rules?! That makes 0 sense, and you know it. I don't remember Accel World being lauded for its plotting, so comparisons to it at this juncture do not foster hope for SAO.
There's nothing in SAO 1-7 that either overtly confirms or denies any set ratio between real world time and game time. I don't know where you're getting this 1 year in game = 8 hours of real world time equivalency, but nothing in episodes 1-7 of SAO corroborates this in any way, shape, or form and thus it is not germane. I don't recall ever even hearing "Brain Burst" in SAO, furthering its irrelevancy here. You, like me, can postulate about a time discrepancy using your ratio, though you seem to have already ruled it out as possible, but given the evidence presented you can't in good faith use it as a factual cornerstone of your argument, as you have attempted to do.
If there isn't a wonky time-perception discrepancy between the game world and the real world then there is no explanation for the continued premise that is anything short of shallow, contrived, and frankly insulting. Not only would the time discrepancy cover the implausibility of thousands being put on life support within a short time period and kept there for a very long one, it would also give a fine explanation for the complaints in the ANN review about not showing how people being trapped in the game affects the real world, as it wouldn't affect it at all. This could also help explain the poorly developed"villain", the game creator, otherwise known as "that guy who was forgotten about by everyone in SAO after he gave his speech for at least 6 episodes". |
Accel World and Sword Art Online are set in the same universe. Therefore it is not unreasonable to use technology present in one to support the other, especially when addressing fan speculation.
Secondly, you said that your favourite scenario was that time passed more quickly in the game than in real life. Accel World has Brain-Burst, a program which allows its users to speed up their consciousness by a factor of a thousand times. This is where the 'one year equals eight hours' conversion came from. My point was, even if Brain-Burst were in Sword Art Online (the game) and therefore enabled players to experience time at a faster rate than in real life (i.e. your favoured scenario), it still wouldn't work. That's because the game would have been shut down by now anyway. Which means your favoured scenario is impossible.
You could argue that maybe time passes more quickly than a factor of one thousand times, except no, it wouldn't. It's impossible. I really can't be bothered explaining it to you (need to hit the sack soon), especially when all you have to do is watch the first few episodes of Accel World to know why it wouldn't.
There is a way that the show's premise can be justified without altering players' perceptions of time. The show already suggested it; the news reports were legit and the headsets really are deadly. Yes, these do have problems; for example, the killer headsets are highly implausible. But they are not impossible, whereas I can safely say that your altered-time scenario is thoroughly impossible. A scenario which, if it were actually true, would be exactly the kind of crappy anything-goes-even-if-it-makes-no-sense brand of writing seen in poorly-made shows such as Fractale.
Essentially, your scenario is attempting to avoid the show's inherent problems by introducing sheer impossibilities. Isn't it easier to just accept that the premise is absurd and roll with it, rather than tinkering with things and making the show much, much worse?
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