Forum - View topicNEWS: Otaku Influences in Japanese Buzzwords
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jpopusa
 Posts: 20 |
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As I have been told by many Japanese friends "moe" is the new word that replaces "otaku"
Since "otaku" still has a very negative impact (as in psychopathic insane type person) the word "moe" more closely fits how we use the word "otaku" in English. So as the article points out moe (pronounced Mo Ay) refers to a sense of deep attachment to characters in manga, anime or video games without all of the crazy killer undertones that the word otaku holds. In fact a friend of mine assurred me that word should catch on here in the US. However this is the first time I have really seen it mentioned in an English article as of yet. |
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Joe Mello
 Posts: 2311 Location: Online Terminal |
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Of course, "moe" also has some negative connotation in anime/manga culture, so nothing really has changed.
In fact, some of us statesiders may argue that "moe" is even worse than "otaku." |
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.Sy
Posts: 1266 |
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For fans in North America, otaku doesn't really have such a huge negative connotation. I think it sounds better than moe, but that's probably because I'm not used to it. It sounds like a type of hot steamed bun or something...
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The Ramblin' Wreck
 Posts: 924 Location: Teaching Robot Women How To Love |
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Yes, Waiter. I'll take two orders of moe with the side of steamed greens over rice..... |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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Agreed, especially given the fact that "moe" is really a specialized term that refers to a very specific kind of otaku. There's a creepy implied sexual undercurrent to the term, as well. Yikes. |
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jpopusa
Posts: 20 |
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From the context that I have heard the word used in Japanese, moe has much less stigma associated to it. Also it is much more descriptive in that it is specific to the anime, manga and videogame subculture.
Also, otaku has MUCH more of a perverse and creepy feel to it vs moe in all the discussions I have had. Moe was always used in a sense of a hardcore fan that bought everything. Moe had a sort of OCD consumerism attached to it. I didn't think the article defined it that well. I would love to hear arguments on moe vs otaku as I have yet to see very little mentioned stateside on the term at all. Also the fact that moe is a very new term that is coming into use, I think that many fans have yet to even see it mentioned. I first heard the term earlier this year when having a talk with a few friends as I was trying to catch up on the latest slang and pick up some Nagoya-ben. I always find it extremely interesting to note the differences in perception in the US versus Japan. For instance the whole Razor Ramone HG thing would be seen totally different here because much of the humor is lost in translation. So it seems a few people have heard moe in use, I would really like to hear the context where you have heard it used. Someone pointed out to me today that there was a word play on it used in the anime Ultimate Girls. Any place else it was mentioned? |
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Sketchee
Posts: 65 |
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I haven't heard the term moe either, although I due know of the "fanatical" connotations that they have in Japan for otaku. I just say I'm a fan and leave it at that.
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TheShadow99
Posts: 32 |
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I've heard the term 'moe' more than a few times... There is even a group based in Japan that scans artbooks and magazines that call themselves 'Moe'... Though everything that 'Moe' releases are about Bishoujo games, or something relating to them (such as artbooks for Tsukihime, Shuffle, To Heart 2, Fate/Stay Night, or things like Dogeki Hime magazine)...
Btw I had thought (from the first time I heard the word in use) moe was a term that meant something like: Thing related to cute/attractive women or person who likes such women... Of course I've only heard it 3 or 4 times, so maybe the person who first translated it for me didn't understand it... But it does fit each situation I heard it in with the given definition... |
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Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10460 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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I dunno, I find Moe kinda odd, but not necessarily creepy. I guess is depend largely on the moe fan, if they're going anywhere sexual it is creepy, but the idea of sexualising moe doesn't even cross the minds of many fans. For many it's no different than the way you look at kittens :-p It'd be interesting to know what percentage of Moe fans sexualise it, and what percentage do not. -t |
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Tempest
I Run this place. ANN Publisher Posts: 10460 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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Nah. Moe is a particular type of Otakuism. And it's becoming extremely popular in Japan among stereotypical anime otaku. Sadly, because of who they are, they tend togive what could be an extremely pure concept, a bit of a bad name. When young men (20~ish) become completely enamoured with cute young girls, its easy to see why so many people think Moe has to be sexual. And of course, being young otaku, many of whom (no offense intended) have little or no experience with the opposite sex, some of the Moe Otaku do turn it into something sexual or pseudo sexual. My biggest dislike is the tendency for anime creators to pander to that demographic by merging sexual imagery and moe. See Popotan for a pretty mainstream example. Abunai is probably the best person to be commenting on this topic, he has way more understanding of the subject than I do. Dormcat too. -t |
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Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6900 Location: Kazune City |
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Expect this same wordplay to be repeated over and over again as it becomes more popular, since anything popular becomes referenced and inside-joked, like the Matrix. I haven't seen Ultimate Girls, but I'm sure that the joke is the same.
Mai Hime and Mai Otome make wordplays with "moe," as in the preview in MH, episode 1, "Hey wasn't this supposed to be a schoolkids story with lots of moe in it?" // "Things sure did burn, such as cars and a ferry." // "No, not that moe. . ." And the series preview for Mai Otome-- Mai: Moe, Arika-chan? Arika: Of course it's moe, Mai-san! Mai: With a "fire" on the left? [燃] (it's hard to see, but the "fire" looks like this 火 -- this kanji is the verb for "moeru," "to burn." If you listen to Dilandau in Escaflowne in Japanese, he yells out the command form, "moero!!!!" quite a bit when he's torching stuff.) Arika: No, with "grass" on top. [萌] (this one is the fandom moe, and the "grass" part refers to budding, sprouting, new growth (as in plants), which is appropriate since the rest of the kanji refers to brightness/newness. Among other things, it forms part of the compound verb 萌え出る [moederu], "to sprout.") ----------------- Arika: But, but, this is a super-yuri school lesbian story! "Moe" is the ultimate weapon! (Yes, it's the same "saishuuheiki" that Chise was.) I wouldn't be averse to writing it "moé" for the time being (as Love Hina does with the doll character "Moé"), since most people unfamiliar with the pronunciation of Japanese are likely to recall one of the Three Stooges or the bartender from "The Simpsons" if they see the word written "moe." |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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Since tempest has mentioned my name here, I'd like to add some clarification shamelessly.
I'm surprised that many here have never heard the term, which is less sensitive than otaku and has been used extensively on mass media.
Both are correct in a way. Moe is not replacing otaku, although the overlapping of their usage has been increasing. In addition to the attraction to cute young girls (see "moe tournament" thread for more information and examples by abunai), moe can be used as a suffix to other forms of special interest, like railway-moe (鉄道萌え) for a person who loves railway in a fetish-like way, whether healthy or not. However, the difference between XYZ-moe and XYZ-otaku (e.g. railway-otaku, 鉄道ヲタ) is that an otaku has the vast knowledge behind his/her obsessiveness, while a -moe person is simply attracted to it, according to Toshio "Ota-king" Okada. A colleague of mine loves everything made by Apple (iPod, iBook, etc.) and keeps yelling "kya~~!" whenever she sees some Apple products. She enjoys using them (and drools when she's out of money to buy those displayed in stores) but has little knowledge about the tech tree or design philosophy behind Apple's products, so I'd call her an "Apple-moe" rather than an "Apple-otaku." |
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Joe Mello
Posts: 2311 Location: Online Terminal |
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We have a moe tournament?
So, to try and convert these terms into comparable English, an otaku would be more of a geek whereas moe is would be a groupie or fanboy/girl (or Narutard) To me, moe still sounds worse because otaku at least are knowledgeable about what they like. In fact, with some of the college courses I'm taking, you could say I'm changing from a moe (just liking the genre) to an otaku (understanding how it "works" culturally and why I like it) And on a complete tangent, I thought nobody used the "wo" katakana anymore. |
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jpopusa
Posts: 20 |
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Thanks for the clarification. And that sorta fits the context that it was explained to me which was otaku being a super uber obsessive fan versus moe being a fan who enjoys and will buy all the stuff. Otaku still has that overly fanatical negative context. Moe was like a more polite way of saying you were a fan instead of saying you were a freaky otaku. Openly admitting you are an otaku in casual conversation isn't always the best thing to do in Japanese. (speaking from personal experience) However in the US otaku is worn like a badge of honor and doesn't have the same negative images associated to it. My conversational Japanese isn't the best and sometimes I may miss subtleties. Also the definition may vary on who you are speaking with -and I was speaking with non fans mostly. Most of the people I talk to are music and entertainment industry folks. So I think the Okada-san definition would be the definitive answer (however maybe slightly tainted in favor of hardcore Otaku-ism) |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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Orz. He's yours, PantsGoblin. Please visit the sticky thread in the Anime forum. Thanks!
Well, not exactly the same. In the world of anime fandom, an otaku is a more general term for the overall knowledge and passion, while he can still be an XYZ-moe for a particular symbolism, e.g. maid, uniform, glasses, clumsiness, osananajimi (childhood sweetheart), imouto (little sister), Gothic lolita, or, the most notoriously popular one: nekomimi (cat ears). Unlike otaku-ish knowledge, love for those symbols is a very subjective matter, and one can have dozens of nonsense reasons or have no reason at all. かわいいは、正義。 Take Yukihiro Terao as a perfect example: he is a very knowledgeable otaku (probably one of the best in Japan), but he's also well-known for his imouto kyara-moe (妹キャラ萌え; falls for little sister characters).  
For some reason, "wo" katakana appears more and more often than "o" in otaku: ヲタク instead of オタク.
Have you got the discount for Densha Otoko movie? 
I wouldn't say so, however. Okada is an old-school otaku in the sci-fi / galactic battle era (Space Battleship Yamato, Gundam, Macross, most tokusatsu (特撮) movies, and even Western sci-fi like Star Wars and Star Trek) and looks down upon the recent moe-dominated anime market. |
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