Forum - View topicShelf Life - Quantum of Solace
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
 Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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CareyGrant,
I think Erin meant: Tomoki was punched into the sky for what *other people in the anime* thought was perverted behavior. *Erin* thinks that Tomoki is being punished for a healthy adolescent interest in sex. So, she's not contradicting herself, at least not the way I read it. |
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BalmungHHQ
Posts: 444 |
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Contrary to that entire review, I find Heaven's Lost Property to be a shining example of a well-handled ecchi series, from which others like it should take example. My only complaint being that it never actually showed any blatant nudity. (a minor complaint at best)
Anyway, this continues my personal hypothesis I've been developing every time I've regrettably clicked "Shelf Life", in that Erin and I are nearly polar opposites in terms of taste, and.... well I'll stop there. On the bright side, I get to look at people's cool collections to make myself feel better. Note to self: Maybe I should stop looking at Shelf Life, or at least skip the "review" portions. |
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Animegomaniac
Posts: 4158 |
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I geuss I'll have to defend Heaven's Lost Property, not because I like it, which I do but because I understand it. Oh, and because I've seen it.
Ok, the superdeformed characters are straight from the manga and are not used for limited animation; They're shorthand images to depict which parts are comedy as opposed to outright drama/melodrama. I love it because all characters are equally subject to it and its associated slapstick properties. The Angeloids as obedient {and I guess sex} female slaves to humans; Yes, given what they really are, Ikaros and later Nymph would rather be seen as that; And it's not that they are obedient, they just want to be useful. I don't see how this is an affront to women because spoiler[1) Angeloids are robots designed for male Angels and 2) They're the villains.] Now, if you said Tomiki's voyeuristic tendancies and outright groping got him into disproportionate retributional situations but, unlike the much inferior Love Hina, positive Karma as well as negative is in full effect in this series and both sexes are affected for a change then I'd at least know you were paying attention. I rate every review on Heaven's Lost Property by which plot element they mention from the first episode {or two}. No one ever mentions the [spoiler though how it's a spoiler as it's in the first episode is beyond me] main plot, it's always the flying panties.
No, and you're not even close if that helps. Think "Nymph".
No, the over exaggerated ecchi comedy is part of the [apparently not] thought provoking study of what humanity is or being alive means and more importantly, if being "nice" as Tomiki can't rate being "decent" can survive. And Nymph's not merely angry, she's racist. I know it's not something that usually pops up in Anime comedies but, you know.... It's absolutely Shelfworthy if only for the fact that it tries to be more than what it is seen to be. Yes, that should be "seems to be" but somehow, I'm one of the few who can look past the breasts. |
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Gewürtztraminer
 Posts: 1028 Location: Texas - Its like whole other country. |
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After one episode of Heaven's Lost Property via streaming, I could tell it was not for me. I hated DearS, and the similarities are too much for me to pass off.
Moving along: I enjoyed the 4 episode arcs of Amagami SS, the story leaps to keep a normal VN adaptation's 'choice' vague until the last arc usually do not come up well. I am with you on the character designs. Take any of the heroines here vs Akikan or Rosario + Vampire. These are way more intersting. The library belly button scene with Kaoru might possibly have revealed a fetish of mine that I did not know about. Here, a case could be made for just about any of these girl's story being canon. I consider it a worthwhile purchase and will revisit it in the future. |
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Cecilthedarkknight_234
 Posts: 3820 Location: Louisville, KY |
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eh... well i suppose different strokes for different folks and I am to hiked up on xanix atm. I liked the first season of sno becasue it focused on angles from heaven. spoiler[Ikraos was and still is a weapon of mass destruction unable to love and responsible for destroying the entire town of babel. "bible references ahoy"
] I normally don't go out on a limb saying that the manga or source material is better unless it's a eroge adapt but in this case..the manga is 100xtimes better. spoiler[If you liked the matrix or themes of being shut away in pod with no true free will.. then read the manga because it drops the whole sex act and gets serious]. Also.. really appreciate posting my collection again... lol anyways good job Erin looking forward to next week. |
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CrownKlown
 Posts: 1762 |
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I cant take these reviews seriously, its like every other week shows that are very comparable getting polar opposite ratings. Then shows that are generally popular get poor ratings, SnO is very popular from what I know.
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Cecilthedarkknight_234
Posts: 3820 Location: Louisville, KY |
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Popularity has no merit or means that something is good. Take Twilight, Justin beiber or even call of duty modern warfare/black-ops as a said case/point. |
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Anton Chigurh
 Posts: 257 Location: Guam |
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I know it was only intended as a pun, but the column's title made me literally LOL.
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Mohawk52
 Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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Sailor S
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I don't see anything misogynistic there, but I'm just a male who doesn't care about that stuff so I don't try and see it in everything.
That said, Erin has a track record that makes it obvious that she wouldn't like HLP. And there's nothing wrong with that. It's not for her, this column isn't supposed to be a neutral review, so if she wants to put it as Perishable then I'm OK with that. It doesn't take away any enjoyment I have from the series if someone, or many someones disagree with me. I'm sure the fan of MD Geist doesn't think any less of the show just because most everyone else pans it. |
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DmonHiro
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I don't get how SnO is misogynistic. Tomoki has no interest in treating Ikoros and Nymph as slaves. he's very nice to both of them, in spite of the fact that he could order Ikaros to do ANYTHING and she would do it, no questions asked. Is it misogynistic because the Tomoki is a pervert? And no, his "normal sexual interests" are anything but normal. I don't know about you guys, but I don't spend my days trying to figure out how to get in the ladies bathroom, or stuff like that.
Ikoros' dead eyes are a plot point, for those to lazy to watch the show and just bash it after reading a review. [/list] |
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Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6900 Location: Kazune City |
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CardcaptorKitty
 Posts: 10 |
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Hey, I just noticed that the "shelf obsessed" bit this week is the same as the Vanillia ICE one back on February the 13th. I thought those shelves looked familiar!
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Melicans
Posts: 627 Location: Canada |
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I'm not surprised that Heaven's Lost Property ended in the Perishable bin, but it is a show that I enjoyed immensely. I would therefore like to present my 'defence' of it, and point out some things that Erin will have understandably missed.
Perhaps the biggest problem of any of these reviews (and I'm not discriminating on Shelf Life here; I mean any review period) is that they tackle the shows on a series-by-series basis. And while that is perfectly fine and workable for something like Chobits or Yamada's First Time, it translates into a major problem for an adaptation that spans multiple series (especially considering the length of the source material, parts of which are often dropped for the limited length of the adaptation). You're only getting part of the series, so a) the depths of the characters haven't been fully explored yet, and b) the plot is still progressing so the answers to many questions are not yet revealed. In the HLP manga, there have been arguably five major arcs so far: Nymph was the first arc, and that was adapted into the first season. Astrea was the second arc, Hiyori was the third arc, Chaos was the fourth arc, and the 'Dark Angeloids'/Chaos' revival was the fifth. The sixth is in the very early stages of the manga. The Astrea and Chaos arcs were both adapted into the second season, while the Hiyori arc was made into the film. As there has not been a third series or second film, the 'Dark Angeloids'/Chaos Part II arcs have not yet been adapted. This of course means that Erin, and anyone else who has only seen the first season, has only partaken in a fifth of the plot thus far; and so of course, much of what was brought up in the shelf life review has actually been addressed; just not in the limited time available in the 12 episodes of the first season. Spoilering the rest in the interest of those who want to know what happens, but not be spoiled for it. spoiler[The time spent in the "New World" in season one is limited; as time progresses and more about the angeloids is revealed, much more time is spent there. This, of course, reveals much about the origin of the angeloids. Whereas Erin positied "Was there some kind of cute girl arms race on distant worlds (or in Earth's distant past)? We'll never know, because HLP is only interested in answering questions about panties", by delving into the material further, the reader learns all of this. The girl who visits Tomoki in his dreams, the angel Daedalus, is the creator of the angeloids. However, they have effectively been seized from her power by the powers-that-be in the New World/the Synapse. This explains the racism expressed by Nymph (calling all humans "bugs") and her anger towards the people on Earth ("Downers"). Much like a child raised in an intolerant family, she espouses the views pressed on her by her owner, the master of Synapse. This is clarified in the early episodes of season 2, when Tomoki, Sohara, and Sugata (and in the anime, the Prez as well) actually manage to visit Synapse. As a result of this, Daedalus is virtually imprisoned in her home in Synapse; the only way she can visit and warn Tomoki is by doing so in his dreams as he sleeps. While it was said in the review that "The flashbacks to Nymph's abusive past are thematically and tonally jarring for a comedy series", it is actually the very first important stepping point in beginning the overarching plot/theme of the series; indeed, it is practically the only point in series one where the "cute girl arms race" is addressed, setting the tone for the deeper examination in series 2 and in the material beyond. Though very dark for a comedy series, it shows what the New World is like, and explains why she that angry/racist personality when she is first encountered; more than that, it helps with amazing character development further on as she becomes close to everyone in the group following the breaking of her chain. [quote=Shelf Life]Why bother taking a completely non-human protagonist and attempt to humanize her? Much of the series dwells on Ikaros's inability to smile, and a lot of dialog calls her “doll-like”. Plus there are the larger philosophical problems of Greek proportions. What is a slave? What is a human? What is free will? Indeed, the show's imagery includes some Grecian sandals and architecture. I'm more interested in philosophy than T&A.[/quote] Then I am happy to say that if you manage to continue with the series, you will find that philosophy in very great depths. Nymph being forced to kill her pet bird is a powerful demonstration of the power the chain holds over an angeloid; and it is later shown (in the manga; the anime has not reached that point) that while the angeloids need a master to feel complete, Tomoki is dead set against it. Though Nymph wants Tomoki to be her new master, he verbally refuses to let her bind herself to him with her chain the same way that Ikaros did. At one point he even tries to break that chain with Ikaros, much to her great distress. All of this sets up the ultimate theme of the series. Tomoki's insistance that the Ikaros, Nymph, and Astrea "do what they want" position him on the side of free will, whereas those in the New World and, to an extent, the angeloids themselves, are very much against that. What is free will? Is free will something experienced only by humans, or can it be extended to non-human entities, such as the angeloids. In series two it is explained that the angeloids are deliberately imperfect. Nymph has the greatest intelligence, but she cannot fight. Astrea is a powerful fighter but incredibly dumb. Ikaros is a smart and an amazing fighter, but unlike the other two she cannot outwardly express emotion; she is incapable of it. These imperfections in the angeloids, contrasted with the seemingly perfect humans of Earth and Synapse, are why a non-human protagonist in the form of Ikaros is attempted to be humanized, and also why she seems to be a better romantic choice for Tomoki than Sohara. The angeloid's chain is the symbol of their imperfection, and of the battle over free will, which is very much the central conflict of the series. Does free will exist for non-humans? Tomoki thinks it does; this is why he pretty much refuses to give any orders after the first few episodes (except when it means attaining his perverted goals), while the master of Synapse believes that it does not. Again, ths reinforces the central, overarching theme of the series: free will. ] To close off; the first series is pretty mild, but in the second series and beyond Tomoki's perversion reaches unthinkable depths. Normal male adolescence certainly doesn't involve setting up binoculors all over town that enable him to peep at girl's panties. Nor does it entail dressing up as Santa and delivering skimpy clothes to girls in the night, or eating a pair of panties in a restaurant. just saying
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4nBlue
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Just out of interest, how many dating simulation adaptions have you seen, because if you count also visual novel adaptions it's not surprising that Amagami is not like the others because of the very different game structure. Amagami doesn't have a root route (or main route or what ever you call the part of the story which takes place before the story branches out to separate routes). In your average school romance visual novel the protagonist interacts with the whole cast for some (often rather long) time before the story branches out to separate character specific routes. To take a rather extreme example, in Otoboku the story doesn't branch out before you have played 3/4 of the school year and the anime actually never made it out of the root route. In comparison in Amagami you can pick who you want to interact with from the very beginning (ok, few minutes after, but pretty close anyway). You play by picking events, and the game doesn't force you to pick events for any of the girls except the one you are going after, so if the player wishes so, Junichi can finish the game without even meeting some of the girls. And I would like to remind that visual novels and dating simulators are two separate game genres and I kind of suspect you haven't seen that many dating sim adaptions, just because I have a hard time naming any recent ones aimed at male audience (I'm not sure whether stuff like Uta no Prince and Hakuoki are more visual novel or dating sim) except for Amagami. And Amagami isn't exactly a pure dating sim because of complete lack of stats for the protagonist. My god I sound like a horrible nerd.
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