Forum - View topicInverted Korean names
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 7584 Location: Wales |
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Am I correct in thinking that the entirety of the Korean cast for
Lucky Star has been entered backwards? If so this is not something I would look forward to correcting since all but one of them have multiple other roles, some of them quite many. |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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Looks like that's the case. You knew who did it and you had warned that user (sigh). 
That's a common problem of those who copied info verbatim from Wikipedia, which has a policy of listing East Asian names in their original order. However, Wiki doesn't have separate and automatically-generated lists of first/last names but we do, thus entering the name with Western order is a must at ANN. |
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 7584 Location: Wales |
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Actually, these weren't entered by our Korean friend who made a mess of the Lucky Star animation credits (and dear oh dead, it looks like I either didn't finish straightening them out or they added more afterwards - need to dig out my LS DVDs but transcribing manually takes forever when you can't read many Kanji) and they actually are sourced, but entered verbatim.
What I also failed to determine yesterday was the Korean licensee; it doesn't appear to be the same company who is publishing the manga ( Daewon Media). |
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 7584 Location: Wales |
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Speaking of Korean names...
animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/people.php?ln=yeon pretty much all these backwards cast members seem to have been entered by one person, sourced from bestanime.co.kr (which seems to be down at present). If you don't know how Korean names work, why mine Korean sites?
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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That applies to Japanese and Chinese as well; you and I have witnessed tons of similar examples over the decade (shrug).
BTW, well-done in that Madoka thread. 
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Dan42
Chief Encyclopedist
 Posts: 3794 Location: Montreal |
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Those Korean names aren't fixed yet right? If so I can change them directly, just give me the list of what to fix. And this goes for any inverted names, Korean or Japanese or other.
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 7584 Location: Wales |
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I've forgotten a lot of what I learned about Korean names.
Park, Lee and Kim are (usually?) surnames - it helps when you have the double first name since that makes it clearer, although all the ones in that list seem to be merged (I think Jeongmi should be Jeong-Mi, following Dormcat's stated preference for example). |
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 7584 Location: Wales |
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I would like a list of names that can ONLY by surnames. I know Park, Lee and Kim are usually surnames, but I don't know it they always are. If anyone happens to have such a list... Wikipedia has http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Korean_family_names
If it has a hyphen, or is in two parts, then it is a given name. E.g: YEON-SUK, Na is clearly incorrect. The two given names are often given merged into one, but by the same token the shorter name is then most likely to be the family name since it has only one component. E.g: YEONGCHAN, Kim should be KIM, Yeong-Chan I think all the the names we have under the Yeon search I posted earlier are incorrect, even ones where the name format is correct like YEON, Kim So - it has the "double barrel" part as the given name which is correct, but Kim is almost certainly the family name so the given name should be Yeon-So or So-Yeon (the former?). To avoid re-treading and since I know we've discussed Korean names elsewhere I'm trying to locate some other threads. General: Name reading assistance (more on the next page also) Duplicate Persons [p. 66] (See also reply on next page) Cleanup required for Aquarian Age TV Specific errors [todo] Name correction #79163 [todo] Name correction 'Seion KOU' #79164 [WiP] Jin Hwan SUNG (#53182) = Tamaki SŌSHIN (#80635) ? Kim KAN-JUN (#86684) (in the words of Doc Emmett Brown, OUTATIME) |
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DerekTheRed
 Posts: 3544 Location: ::Points to hand:: |
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I endorse this message. |
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Devil Doll
 Posts: 656 Location: Germany |
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The pages I linked to in this posting are the seiyuu's page there, most of which contain even an image of the person. The hyphens are inserted by me; I did translate the hangul with Google Translate (which is much better for hangul than for kanji because hangul aren't ambiguous) to double-check the syllable order. But you can see even here how all Jeong, Lee and Park begin with the same first hangul, how the hangul for Bang and Gang resemble each other, how the hangul for Wu, Su and Ju resemble each other etc. Note that there are different romanizations for Korean names as well; I didn't try to check whether the names above are normalized in any way, I just validated their romanized name against the romanized form given by their sources (which has the same notation as ANN except for one case where the source even has the hyphen). |
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Dan42
Chief Encyclopedist
Posts: 3794 Location: Montreal |
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Done fixing all the names. I've also added a new report: Possibly inverted family names
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 7584 Location: Wales |
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Thanks for that.
I've tracked down the errors I discovered when working on the Highlander credits: animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=864416#864416 This computer doesn't do Hangul... (got sniped by Dan. I was replying to DD, but thanks to Dan too) |
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Devil Doll
Posts: 656 Location: Germany |
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The report is interesting but shows names such as "Doga" and "Henshushitsu" which are most likely companies rather than persons and should get a separate treatment.
And you might want to set persons with 0 credits in italics. Of the "Kim" in this report, there are probably about 90% in the wrong order (except non-Korean names such as "Kim Dent-Wilder" etc.) but what would be required to give you a "proof"? Most of the low-level animators have likely been credited in romanized form, not telling us the order of the name parts even when we look at the original video. Then again, some sources might provide the hyphen as part of the given names which didn't make it into ANN's database. I just ran into an example at D2_STATION: Kim MI SUK => Kim Mi-Suk Would this suffice as proof for triggering a renaming of this person? This same source page provides hyphens for:
What about a report of all persons with "bestanime.co.kr" being substring of some credit source AND having no hyphen in their given name? These should be easy to validate and "hyphenize". I'll try a few:
Google Translate's romanization feature (below the input form) does a pretty good job for the individual hangul, using the revised romanization (in which "김" has the reading "Gim" instead of "Kim"). ANN contributors apparently use "revised" in most cases, at least for the given name, thus "Gim" might actually be preferable to "Kim"... hm. But I'm only guessing here. My Firefox browser displays this page with character encoding "Unicode" and handles both kanji and hangul. Did you install "East Asian language support" on your PC, Shiroi Hane? Last edited by Devil Doll on Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:19 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 7584 Location: Wales |
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But, they are usually credited in a block and all in the same order. Lee, Kim and Park being the most common Korean surnames there is usually enough data to infer the order being used (or at least, which end the family name is at).
Not my PC, no admin access. Depends where I am posting from. |
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Devil Doll
Posts: 656 Location: Germany |
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I consider both a hyphen in the given name and a hangul name better quality, so let's begin with these, they are quite a lot and may significantly change the results of Dan42's probability logic already.
What about an additional report listing all persons with a hyphen in their family name? It should be possible to identify the Koreans amongst them, and reverse their name order. More bestanime.co.kr seiyuu: (all names to be reversed) Dan, there are quite a few URLs of the schema http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:_26qPlAmnJ4J:bestanime.co.kr/newAniData/aniInfo.php%3Fidx%3D321%26subPageType%3Dcharacter+http://bestanime.co.kr/newAniData/aniInfo.php%3Fidx%3D321%26subPageType%3Dcharacter&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us as source for Korean seiyuu which I can't use in my browser because they're already URLencoded, thus making any URLhacking pretty bothersome. Do you see any chance to automatically restore the original URL from these (marked in boldface)? A Korean staff credited via hanja: Kim HAE SOOK: 金 海淑 = KIM, Hae-Sook (김해숙) Non-Korean Kim: Kim NYUGEN is probably a spelling error of Kim NGUYEN (both seiyuu in English versions; Nguyen is the most common Vietnamese surname). Note there's also Kim Mai NGUYEN, also seiyuu for English versions, which may well be the same person. |
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