Forum - View topicANNCast - S-E-X-X-I-S-M
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configspace
Posts: 3717 |
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@Zac
lol, this could very well be pot meeting kettle as I doubt your snarky potshots and attacks on a few posters comes from any humble intent either. The point I bring it up is because everyone, except for Vantos it seems, is throwing the term sexist around without even stating why. The assumed (alternative second M-W) definition does not itself state how to judge something as sexist as the definition itself defers actual judgement to society. People state how, but they aren't stating exactly why one type of depiction vs another type of depiction is sexist. And if people disagree, if it's ever relative to any externalities outside the medium, then I am pointing that anything then can be declared sexist (if not using the more objective first definition) So I am trying to invite--ok, trying to goad people--to try to actually make a case why! |
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bravetailor
Posts: 817 |
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Well, first of all, it's a comedy. You have to give leeway to exaggerated behaviours in this genre too. I wouldn't presume to describe her ideas about sexuality naive, as there are plenty of mature women around with perhaps the same mentality as Yamada to a certain degree. Although obviously her indecisiveness about what to DO WITH IT obviously is borne out of sexual inexperience. I think to belittle Yamada's sexual aggressiveness and motivations would do her character a disservice since we don't belittle Ataru Moroboshi for being a lech, we just accept it as part of his comedic persona. So, I just accept Yamada's motivations as just the story's eye-catching hook, rather than being a deep psychological insight into her persona. The show really doesn't care why the characters are here, it wants to simply talk about sex, baby. (From a teenage standpoint, that is) What struck me about B Gata H Kei was how strongly focused it was on Yamada's thoughts and feelings during sexual situations. Being a guy, I can't judge for sure its authenticity to female thoughts (and one must also take into account that there is no such thing as "common" female thoughts as every person is different), but the things Yamada was feeling or thinking about when with Kosuda struck me as authentic enough to make me conclude that it was either written by a very empathetic guy, or a woman. Guys don't think about awkwardness when writing sex--at least, not awkwardness from both points of view. They'll often focus more of the man's awkwardness. In B Gata H Kei, the show devotes a lot of sensitivity to the awkwardness of both characters, even during the steamiest situations. And I can tell you one thing they definitely got right: Yamada tends to get annoyed when Kosuda can't read what she wants when they're attempting to paw at each other late in the series. When Yamada goes on her "Move there--no that's not right--urgh, you have no idea what I want," thought tangents, I had to smile sheepishly in acknowledgement. Because I've been in situations like that, and the ladies in question would gently chide me afterwards in the exact same way as Yamada does in the examples above. 
And as someone mentioned, I later find out the source material was indeed written by a woman and I'm glad my instincts were correct. |
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tuxedocat
 Posts: 2183 |
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I think the point was about women writing this stuff, and her perspective on it. And on a personal note, I would never let a guy like that near me and warn off any of my friends. But you have to remember that a lot of guys think that is hawt, especially if it is against the woman's will. Japan, I think, has a different ideology about crime prevention. They approach these kind of things by feeding the potential sex-offenders plenty of fantasy fodder in hopes of keeping them in their hidey-holes, where here in the Western countries the prevalent ideology is that the fantasy fodder will result in the escalation of their behavior to RL victims. Last edited by tuxedocat on Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:27 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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YEAH MAN YOU SHOW THOSE FEMINISTS |
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Princess_Irene
ANN Reviewer
 Posts: 2632 Location: The castle beyond the Goblin City |
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Not quite what I was getting at. 
What I was talking about was that the heroines in those situations are often portrayed as only getting the man when they are subservient, not that men who prefer submissive women are the evil ones. If the girl is taught to repress herself in order to fulfill the goal of getting the guy, that's not good. If the girl is naturally submissive - and in some cases with Shinjo and like authors, that is not the case - fine. But she shouldn't have to be. |
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nhat
Posts: 922 |
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Wow you're missing Moribito also. I would say she is a prime example more than Olivier Mira Armstrong |
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NotintheMood
Posts: 36 |
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Thank you for saying this and I just wanted to add that: Biology is variable. Hormone levels, muscle mass and even the number of interconnections in the brain all vary from person to person. This is why when you get a blood test, the results always show a normal range and not an exact number. Just as there are differences between individuals there are differences between male and female brain chemistry. But these differences are normal and minor. |
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Cecilthedarkknight_234
 Posts: 3820 Location: Louisville, KY |
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On a different side of sexism i went digging through my 100000 of anime pics and finally dug up something that's both a little sexist and deranged at the same time. Mind you i can relate a bit to this MC that is about to be featured below but still... I can not help but laugh at the person that thought of doing this in photo-shop.
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dewlwieldthedarpachief
 Posts: 751 Location: Canada |
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There's a great metaphor about damaged manhood and using protection in here somewhere...
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TitanXL
 Posts: 4036 |
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If you get that weird out by a simple panty shot, then I'm honestly not sure how you can watch anime at all. Even kids stuff like Pocket Monsters and Digimon have panty shots occasionally. Get into a little older and you get full on nude girl playtime like Naruto's sexy jutsu, bouncy booby beach episodes with tentacle monsters in Bleach, Nami's soap battle with Kalifa and Nami fanservice in general. Then go into the older and you get pull on harem/fanservice like Aikikan and such, then at the extreme end, short of hentai, you got your Seikon no Qwasers and Queens Blade. Then again, there's also the opposite. How many fangirls lavish over Gray's running joke over stripping his clothes off? Or Zoro and Sanji being shirtless all the time, or the plethora of Sasuke smut. Maybe I'm an outlier because all my friends in high school and college were girls, out of the 6 of us, I was the only guy. They loved Tenchi just as much as I did growing up, they thought Ryoko and Kiyone were awesome, and an episode dedicated to them being peeped on in the hot springs or posing in skimpy swim suits for a competition didn't 'ruin and rob them of their strong characteristics' All they did was say stuff like 'damn girl' and 'she got it going on' and so forth. They admired them just as much, and found some of it hilarious like Nagi's swimsuit. They though the scene when Asuka teases Shinji in a towel in the Evangelion manga was hilarious, and so forth. That's why all the comments like 'only loser virgins with no girlfriend like fanservice/I'm not their target demographic' make me facepalm. Fanservice is such a common thing in anime. You can have a girlfriend or a normal sex life but still enjoy seeing that stuff, and they can enjoy it as well. Sometimes it can even help set the mood for couples. (Aside, the fact Winry kept getting left out of the 'strong female character' list for FMA pretty much shows when people say 'strong female character' they mean in the literal sense, not in terms of character growth or good writing, because in that regard Winry trounces every other woman in that series. That kind of mindset is why video games still try to shove Lara Croft in everyone's faces as a good female role model, because 'kicking ass' is more important than actually being a good, well written character) |
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Shenl742
Posts: 1524 |
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You're seeing things really black and white here, and you're REALLY underestimating how open minded people can be.. People can tolerate fanservice just fine, though they still don't have to like it. And as long a series has more going for it then just panties and boobs, then all the better. And if it doesn't? Then screw it. I mean, I'm a gay man. Got Vandread on my shelf. It's a guilty pleasure of mine. Don't really feel too guilty about liking it at all. Got Rin: Daugthers of Mnemosyne on my shelf. Thought it was crap and went way too far. Though it just pushed it way too far. As you can see, there's no real "if X then Y" here. Criticizing some stuff doesn't automatically mean they're some kind of puritan windbag. You seem to find the idea very strange that some people can have standard. Complex standards, but standards none the less. And you keep pulling the, "You're an anime fan, and yet you don't like fanservice? You're a hypocrite" card is very silly in my opinion
No one's saying likeing fanservicy stuff automatically makes you a loser virgin...Theron likes tons of fansevicy stuff and he's definately not a loser in my opinion. I think it's when someone tries when a show is something it isn't is when eyebrows start to be raised.
Doesn't meen we have to like it.
Sure, I won't deny that.
That...I'll just take you're word for it. [/quote] Last edited by Shenl742 on Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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RyanSaotome
 Posts: 4210 Location: Towson, Maryland |
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I would have to agree with Titan here. Fanservice and cute girls has always been a large part of anime, even in the past. It wasn't fansubbed or dubbed so much in the past, but looking at any old anime chart shows that nearly half the anime even in the 80s and 90s have cute girls (though it was more the OVA market back then which became the late night market). I find it kinda silly to feel connected to a fandom yet refuse to acknowledge and enjoy one of the cornerstones of it. Plus people here seem to hate anime as it is now, so why even go to an anime website if you can't stand it? Is it just to mope around about the good old days (which actually wasn't any better, since there was like 2 big anime a year in the 90s) or something? |
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Shenl742
Posts: 1524 |
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But there's TONS of anime I like which have very minimal to no fanservice at all. There's still some coming out every year for me! It's not impossible to be a hardcore anime fan who doesn't wallow or take a vested interest in fanservicy stuff. And once again: gay here. I'm intrinsically unable to enjoy stuff where boobs and panties are the main feature, except maybe on an ironic level. |
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jenthehen
 Posts: 835 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio |
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I consider myself a feminist, but I enjoy many moe and fanservice (i.e. panty shots / giant boobs) shows. I wanted to step in to defend Yamada's First Time. Yes, there is, of course, sexism to be found and it does pander a bit to male fantasies, but I actually found the entire experience watching it to be rather refreshing in regards to recent anime trends.
It isn't really a fanservice show. It's definitely a romantic comedy, and it is actually very, VERY funny. Yamada is not an idiot or even a ditz. I'm pretty sure she's even decent at school and she's observant and has a normal life / friends. However, she is, as every horny teenager with no sexual/romantic experience, completely clueless about sex and relationships. When I was in middle school / Jr. High I was very much like Yamada (although less exaggerated, of course). Obsessed with sex / sexuality, without ever having been kissed ... looking up dirty words, asking friends ridiculous questions, plotting to "hook up" with/date guys, having stupid misconceptions about sex, etc. I think what's great about the show is so many of the inner-dialogues are so honest and realistic and easy to relate to (if you recall back to being a clueless and embarrassed teenager). That made the show so hilarious and enjoyable to watch. I'd recommend anyone who enjoys "sexual comedies" to give it a go. It's nice to see an anime portray a female character who is very interested in sex without turning it into something ridiculous (i.e. the teacher in DearS). |
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asimpson2006
 Posts: 3151 Location: USA |
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This. The one thing that I am glad the show does is that it at least has the characters thinking about using protection instead of just bare backing and taking a chance to the wind on being lucky. I did not really remember noticing that when I watched the show back in 2010 but when I watched the BD's I noticed this time around. |
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