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NEWS: Torrent Site Crushed by MPAA


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cyrax777



Joined: 05 Mar 2003
Posts: 1825
Location: the desert
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 7:28 am Reply with quote
you know almost all the sites getting sued all have one thing in common besided torrents to questunably infringing material (a torrent just points to who has the file doesnt contain said infringing material plus the only way to be sure is to download via said torrent and confirm torrent is what its purtaning to be)

Is they all have banner adds and paypal donation links. ie someone is making some money off this.

Thats also why there higher up on the food chain in terms of lawsuits. They might as well paint a big sign that says SUE ME I am a MORON on there website. Thats when the corparations really get mad is when your not only distoroing bootlegs or links to bootlegs ie torrents but making money off it. Doesnt even have to be a postive cash flow just the attempt to make money off it.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 7:35 am Reply with quote
Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing I love it. So much for not taking any action like some here have said they wouldn't. And it sets a precedence for the anime studios and distributors to use. Enjoy your "free lunch" but you better get out before they hand you the bill. Bwaaa-hahahahhahahahahahahah! Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Dejiko



Joined: 18 Jun 2003
Posts: 276
Location: Holland (between Great Britain and Germany)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 7:47 am Reply with quote
MPAA wrote:
Illegally downloading movies from sites such as these without proper authorization violates the law,

Well, if you've had authorization, it wouldn't be exactly illegal anymore, now would it hmm? Wink
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The Starfall Knight



Joined: 05 Jul 2004
Posts: 130
Location: Within the hearts of the people
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 10:55 am Reply with quote
Shouting Contest Between Two Brick Walls: COMMENCE!

lol. There's no point in arguing about this anymore. It's just like the debate about the fansubs.
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Mattousai



Joined: 15 Feb 2004
Posts: 17
Location: Washington DC
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 10:58 am Reply with quote
It was as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and suddenly crapped their pants Razz
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Lilly



Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 3
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:43 am Reply with quote
Lost_Toys wrote:


If you follow the law, you have nothing to fear. Those who break it, had no rights in the first place.

PS The RIAA are asses. So far, there have been no large legal battles on individuals by the MPAA.


Not always. Many people have wrongly been accused.

I worry because I downloaded BitTorrent but I never used it. It's already off of my computer. I thought I was going to download stuff but I ended up not doing it because I thought it was wrong.
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Onizuka666



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Posts: 266
Location: U.K
PostPosted: Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:06 pm Reply with quote
Here's my take on things

I can understand the MPAA wanting to protect copyrights etc, but I feel this is an excuse to avoid the real issue which is to offer a mean of distribution for video content similar to iTunes.

Do you all remember how things were before iTunes broke the legal downloading mold? The RIAA absolutely made no attempt give the consumer the kind of online service they clearly wanted. In doing this they could have sorted the whole thing out ( well you have to start somewhere), but in the time the RIAA spent shufling lawsuits etc downloading went up and now they are drowning in it. Now they have a real problem that isn't going to go away, also because the online global public are legion and have a more varied taste in music than what is being plugged MTV etc. Traditional radio is next in line as the people of the planet vote with their feet and log on to the likes of Live365.com. People don't want ads, or cookie cutter candy pop, just something good with more variety.

Now the MPAA are having the same downloading problem, but looked idly by as Napster took off. After Napster went down MPAA should have taken counter measures after seeing what happened to RIAA, or offered a decent payable service but they failed to act. Reluctance of new tech will not help if you don't get with the program fast. The online world move several times faster than the real world of judges, politics and laws.

They make this kind of service sound so hard to put online when it clearly isn't. If legal stuff and paper work get in the way of such a service that kind of delay plays right into the hands of what they can illegal downloading. Files go up fast, no paper work and people get access to sample more content that they might have otherwise past by or never set eyes on.

I think there is one thing torrents sites could try and that is to offer a download but also point the downloader in the direction of where to buy the legal product, be it film or music.

Personally I have downloaded a movie or two in the past. The good thing about it was that I saw more films than I would have normally if having to wait on friends to actually go to the cinema (because you have to go with friends it's this social angle that stops many people watching more films at a cinema, and why DVD sales/rentals are always so high). The bad side was sometimes poor quality (I know some people don't mind this so long as the film is watchable and understandable).

The reason I stopped is because I prefer to buy official U.S import DVDs since they appear on sale faster quicker (and in some cases region 3 DVDs faster than region 1 DVDs). Not so long ago in some countries they hated us buying import DVDs but that arguement has surely changed now. Do they now not mind us buying import DVDs? If so I'd like to hear them say it.

When a kind of iMovies site appears and we can download for a price Spiderman 4, at the same time it's on at the cinema/theatre (most likely with a limited amount of play) things will begin to shift in the MPAAs favour. If most films did this I'm sure we would consume more films than we do now, at home or at the local multiscreen. It's only a matter of real time, but is that real time fast enough?
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sceadu



Joined: 10 Aug 2003
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 12:07 am Reply with quote
Onizuka666 wrote:
When a kind of iMovies site appears and we can download for a price Spiderman 4, at the same time it's on at the cinema/theatre (most likely with a limited amount of play) things will begin to shift in the MPAAs favour. If most films did this I'm sure we would consume more films than we do now, at home or at the local multiscreen. It's only a matter of real time, but is that real time fast enough?


You already have that option for new-ish movies. Wall Street Journal review of CinemaNow and Movielink: http://ptech.wsj.com/archive/ptech-20050210.html
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Kazuki-san



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2251
Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 12:22 am Reply with quote
Gamelore wrote:

Of course, this applies mostly to unlicensed movies in my case, so it's not illegal.


If it is a movie from any of the countries that the US has numerous Copyright treaties with, then it's absolutely illegal. Will something be done about it? That's another question.
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CCSYueh



Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Posts: 2707
Location: San Diego, CA
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 12:34 am Reply with quote
Gamelore wrote:

I use bittorrent as a method for previewing, personally, so you can't categorize everyone that way. I buy about 20-30 dvd's per month now, and I don't have the opportunity to watch everything I hear "good things" about before buying it. Thus, bittorrent is a good way to download questionable purchases, watch the first 5 minutes, and then delete them (the only problem comes when trying to keep my share ratio up, forcing me to keep from deleting it for a while).

If you watch only 5 minutes, why not just watch the trailers/commercials? I also buy about 20-30 dvds per month, but have never, ever downloaded. It's not that hard to figure out what one likes. Yes, once in awhile I blow it, but mistakes happen, one learns from them. Is the cost of a movie ticket that big a deal to your budget? My movie-going tends to be the $4 matinee(1st showing of the day.) If I blow $4 on Cabin Fever, it's no big deal(ok, $8 & my daughter loved it, so it was only my $4 that was wasted).

My anime purchases are based on Newtype & dvd previews.


Of course, this applies mostly to unlicensed movies in my case, so it's not illegal. Though I will usually examine one or two films under the MPAA umbrella per year. Sueing people is very unfortunate for everyone. It scares me away from an expected purchase, instead putting the title on my "list of dvd's to rent when I settle down and get Netflix", and by then the original hype is no longer there and I'm unlikely to buy it. It's unfortunate for me because I lose a little freedom. But it's their films... If they don't want me evaluating or buying Hollywood movies, I'll respect that.


And if you don't want to blow $4-$6 at the matinee, there's rentals around $4. There's really no excuse for downloading other than the fact people have gotten away with it for so long & have become spoiled.

Yes, the top of the food chain-director, top stars, etc., get theirs, but what about the names further down the credits? The ADR guys. The Foley guys. The Grip Boys. The painters. Yes, they are paid before the film comes out, but their respective unions bargain the pay & the studios can argue they can't increase pay because profits are down due to various factors including piracy. Or fewer pictures get made because profits are down, so more unemployment among the closing credit gang.

Yes, no one wants 12 yr olds sued, but the idea the line between criminal & regular citizen is being blurred is incorrect. Technically tickets are given out for violating the law, thus everyone who's ever received a ticket could be called a criminal. The legal system in the United States recognizes people make mistakes & even after being convicted of many types of felonies, one can go to ct to have the felony reduced to a misdemeanor or have one's record expunged. Can you even begin to imagine how many times a day a cop hears "Why aren't you out there catching real criminals?" when s/he hands out a ticket or arrests a shoplifter? Someone thought the law needed to be in place to protect someone or something, so the law exists. If it were your car smashed by a hit-&-run driver, I bet you'd think it important for the cop to catch a speeder.
And if you're collecting unemployment checks because studio profits are down so they cancelled the movie you were set to work on, I bet you're be cheering the MPAA on.
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GuestSpeaker



Joined: 24 Sep 2004
Posts: 19
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 12:52 am Reply with quote
Let see....Its kinda hard not to get pissed at the MPAA or RIAA, we got some rich guy making $$$ complaining that he's not making more $$$, so he sue's the guy with no $$$. I guese movie and record exec's need to pay for their big mansion and BMW sport cars, did u know that in a movie budget most of the $$$ goes to A list movie stars (1.2 mil, 3 mil, 10 mil) and promitonal advertisement, the average worker doesnt make that much. Its not any fairer for the recording industry, artist are only getting 5 cents per cd sales and a cd cost more than $10, where the hell is the rest of my money going??? If u rich snobs are really getting hurt then why are u still making a tremendous amount of $$$$$$$....unless i see a record or movie studio on the verge of bankruptcy, then i'll your side of the story, in the meantime stop bitching and blaming the public and then afterwards drive off in BMW sports car and back to million dollar mansion..

P.S. do you guys remember a couple of months ago that Homeland security arrested people for builing their exclusive network and sharing Files, it was this really deep underground group...EXCLUSIVE..meaning amongs themselves and they got jail time....Let see...were at war and it is known that terrosist use the net for commication and attacks and yet homeland security who's suppose to keep the U.S. safe is the doing the bidding of the MPAA and RIAA...ouch talk about getting bought...time to move to canada
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Stueypark



Joined: 10 Aug 2002
Posts: 116
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 1:09 am Reply with quote
Remember that if you ever have your car stolen... You know, you're doing so well you can afford a car, and some poor guy can't even afford a decent meal so he steals your car.

You also look at the industry wrong, it's not just musician and executive. You want to know where the rest of the money is going? ok:
Artists' royalties
Songwriter's royalties
Recording Studio fees
Inhouse musicians
sound engineers
producers
marketing & promotion (probably the most expensive part)
graphic designers (for advertising and CD covers)
tour expenses
printers
CD production

In fact, only 1 in every 10 CDs released turns a profit.

There are thousands of people involved with the creation of a CD and for every percent of songs downloaded instead of bought, it's a percent of the industry who won't get paid.

You may complain about most of the money going to promotion but I have a feeling you have no idea just how many people are involved in that. It takes just about as many people to create an original commercial as it takes to create an original movie... and I'm sure you know how long those credits are at the end of the film.

Of course, this dosen't count people earning money indirectly from the industry, accountants, truckers, resteraunts, etc.
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Kazuki-san



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2251
Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 1:34 am Reply with quote
GuestSpeaker wrote:
did u know that in a movie budget most of the $$$ goes to A list movie stars (1.2 mil, 3 mil, 10 mil) and promitonal advertisement, the average worker doesnt make that much.


Oh really. What about the special effects people, the sound engineers and related staff, the directors, script writers, paying for the use of locations, security, equipment, makeup artists, the list goes on and on. Yes, the stars get a big paycheck, but everyone else gets paid as well.

I guess that since CEOs of most corporations get big bucks, and the normal employees don't, it's cool to steal stuff from the company every now and then. After all, it'll only hurt the guys that make the big money right?!? Rolling Eyes


GuestSpeaker wrote:
Its not any fairer for the recording industry, artist are only getting 5 cents per cd sales and a cd cost more than $10, where the hell is the rest of my money going???


Yeah, and the artists know what they are getting when they sign contracts. They make most of their money touring and doing TV spots and such. The rest of the money goes to pay all the people and companies involved in the production of a cd. Yes, the top people get their money, but so does everyone else. And some money goes towards this thing called "profit" which is why companies exist in the first place.

GuestSpeaker wrote:
P.S. do you guys remember a couple of months ago that Homeland security arrested people for builing their exclusive network and sharing Files, it was this really deep underground group...EXCLUSIVE..meaning amongs themselves and they got jail time....

A link would be nice, as I have no clue what you are talking about, unless you are talking about them cracking down on child porn distributed over P2P, which I'm happy they did something about.
GuestSpeaker wrote:
time to move to canada


Wow. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
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Green Bird



Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 12
Location: Northern, VA - and it's endless hours of traffic
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 1:54 am Reply with quote
Stueypark wrote:

You may complain about most of the money going to promotion but I have a feeling you have no idea just how many people are involved in that. It takes just about as many people to create an original commercial as it takes to create an original movie... and I'm sure you know how long those credits are at the end of the film.

Of course, this dosen't count people earning money indirectly from the industry, accountants, truckers, resteraunts, etc.


This is really the heart of the matter...a bit off topic, but a real example of trying to stick it to the rich "because they can affrod it" was the luxury boat tax. The US government levied enormous taxes on luxury boats several years ago; this tax was one of the very few to have been entirely rescinded because it deeply hurt regular blue-collar workers (the rich still had their money) as there was much less demand for their services. So, piracy is stealing any way you look at it; it isn't necessarily theft from the rich, but from the "little guy" in the form of layoffs, reduced benefits, stagnant wages etc.

Quote:

Personally I have downloaded a movie or two in the past. The good thing about it was that I saw more films than I would have normally if having to wait on friends to actually go to the cinema (because you have to go with friends it's this social angle that stops many people watching more films at a cinema, and why DVD sales/rentals are always so high).


I find this reason to be a scapegoat for insecurity. I think that every reason used to justify illegal downloading boils down to either laziness or cheapness, but this one is silly. ...wait on friends...because you have to go with friends, there is no strict social norm dictating that movies must be seen in the company of others. I, and most of my friends, have gone to movies alone, for one reason or another. If you are going to gripe about cinemas...use a legitimate reason like admission fees and not how you would "look" if you went to a movie by yourself.
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Sword of Whedon



Joined: 17 Sep 2003
Posts: 683
PostPosted: Sun Feb 13, 2005 2:25 am Reply with quote
Quote:
did u know that in a movie budget most of the $$$ goes to A list movie stars (1.2 mil, 3 mil, 10 mil) and promitonal advertisement, the average worker doesnt make that much.


And guess what, the promo isn't figured into the movie's budget (and easily costs half again the cost of the movie), and no, most of the budget does not go into the star's pockets. Do you know what the percentage of people earning over $5 million a picture is? Very very small, and in fact they can be making very very little money.

One of the reason's SAG is one of the greatest unions in the country is that they make sure that everyone, from Brad Pitt to the little guy in scene 32 gets their checks, and ALL their royalty checks. Brad Pitt might not need the $5000 or whatever he gets every time his movie shows on TV, but the waiter in the coffee shop with 2 lines sure appriciates the $75 he gets, the money that he gets because Brad Pitt is marketable enough for people to create movies for him to star in.

Much of a movie's budget is going toward paying the hundreds of people, from the PAs who get the coffee to the visual FX guys who make it all possible. Your average film will employ up to 500-1000 individual people over the course of its production, many of whom depend on those bitty royalty checks to make it between jobs.

So yes, you are hurting people, a lot of people when you don't pay your movie ticket or don't buy those DVDs.

People have been wise to point out that the MPAA are targeting the distribution channels, and not the all-out crusade of the RIAA. While I frankly expect that they might send nasty letters to regular torrent uploaders and seeders, I think they'll be content with breaking the back of the torrent community. With the destruction of SuprNova, Loki, and the in-process annihlation of others, it's simply a matter of time till things are brought down to a much more reasonable and manageable dull roar.

The big thing that I'm wondering is where the LokiTorrent guy is going to come up with a million bucks.Considering he couldn't afford his own legal defense, I somehow doubt he's got that kind of cash.

Though I am going to laugh when the Cove goes down, he thinks that hiding behind obscure Swedish law's going to save him. They'll just find another way, after all, they used to prosecute hackers for stealing electricty before there were anti-hacking laws in Europ.
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