Forum - View topic

NEWS: Beckanime.com goes to Funimation

While yes it would be nice if people explanined their point they do not have to explain it.

hikura wrote:

While yes it would be nice if people explanined their point they do not have to explain it.

And it's this mentality that gives rise to crappy list threads. Explanation & debate are the cornerstones of discussion, hence discussion forums. I'm sorry you don't seem to get that and encourage a lack of intelligence via the whole "say whatever you want and just walk away" bit.

Actually...thinking about it, it's a lack of explanation on points like this that encourages flaming the person even more than a decent explanation to back up their claim. So...you're suggesting that this person make themselves an even bigger target for people a lot meaner than Toboe?

Your missing the point.

If you dislike it then you have the right to walk away from it,like i said in my previous post.

or try to ask for explaination for their opnion.

If a person(or persons) "makes themself(or themselves) a target for flaming" so be it.Not your fault.

hikura wrote:

Your missing the point.

No, I'm just missing how it applies to a random, unexplained statement that genuinely needed to be backed up with something.

hikura wrote:

If you dislike it then you have the right to walk away from it,like i said in my previous post.

I also have the right to challenge it, as well as the apparent lack of reasoning behind it. Toboe did too, and they were accused of attacking that person's opinion.

hikura wrote:

or try to ask for explaination for their opnion.

And again, when someone did that (albeit with rather rough wording), you got on their case for attacking someone else's opinion.

hikura wrote:

If a person(or persons) "makes themself(or themselves) a target for flaming" so be it.Not your fault.

Not your fault either, which is why I wonder why you've defended penguintruth so much for doing it to him-or-herself.

The person already made the statement

You even admitted toboe handled it roughly.

I am not defending the persons statement.I am defending the persons right to say it.There is a huge gap in the differnce.

(For anyone that disagrees with me, I invite you to argue. If you have any actual numbers and facts, with legitimate sources e.g. website link, i would appreciate if you used those.) I really want actual numbers on viewership for these shows.

It's not a matter of comparing ourselves with Japan, it's the fact that we're living (i'm guessing most of us) in the US. So we should look at what is relevant to ourselves. I don't care that it isn't cheap for Japanese fans. What I care about is the fact that it's too expensive for American fans. Why should we get it cheaper?

Now, with the whole if you like subs buy the dvd and stop complaining. Why not have only have subs on television? Because people who want to watch it dubbed into their native language would complain. So why can't we sub fans complain? I think that's hypocritical. Sure, some people will reply that people would stop watching anime if that happened. Then it isn't that great to start with, now is it? I have faith. No matter what language they're speaking, people will come.

Ok, I never said it's my only source, so your point is moot. What I meant is that, because of sub fans being the minority, we get stuck with dishing out more effort(and dough) to watch anime in our preferred format.

hikura wrote:

The person already made the statement

...as to why they felt the FMA dub failed on several levels? I must've missed it.

hikura wrote:

You even admitted toboe handled it roughly.

Handled it roughly, yes. But they still posed a valid question and did not actually attack penguintruth's opinion.

hikura wrote:

I am not defending the persons statement.I am defending the persons right to say it.There is a huge gap in the differnce.

And exactly why are you defending their opinion from someone who never said they didn't have a right to it? All I'm arguing is that the person should do a better job at expressing their opinion (regardless of what it may be), not that their view is "wrong" and they don't deserve to express it.

A valid question should be posed in a valid way not in approate way.You even admitted they did it the wrong way.

They(penguintruth) did express it on why he thought the way he did earlier in the fourms.

It shows that your not reading the backlogs on the persons statements.That is why i am disagreeing with you.

hikura wrote:

A valid question should be posed in a valid way not in approate way.You even admitted they did it the wrong way.

I never said that Toboe posed the question "the wrong way," I said they used some rather rough language. You can be a bit coarse with your wording and still pose an extremely valid and poignant question. And y'know what? Toboe did just that.

hikura wrote:

They(penguintruth) did express it on why he thought the way he did earlier in the fourms.

They made a couple points, but the vast majority of that post consisted of effectively dancing around the question. Instead of actually providing explanations, they basically extended "I didn't like it, it sucked" to "I didn't like this character or this character or this character, OMG it was so bad like DBZ again, I didn't like this character..." Only once or twice did they actually stop and state why (aside from saying "sounds like retard," which...sorry, I fail to see that as a valid explanation).

So the fact that we still really don't have an argument from the person beyond "this was bad and this was bad and those were the LEAST of the show's problems" pretty much stands.

hikura wrote:

It shows that your not reading the backlogs on the persons statements.That is why i am disagreeing with you.

No, you were disagreeing with me because you don't see it necessary for someone to defend their statements, and because anyone that asks for such elaboration is "attacking" the other guy. You just now brought up the lame "explanation," so I don't see how that's somehow been the great crux of your argument all along.

I have said this before,people are allowed to express their opnion.

where does it say that hey have to?

If they do not want to explain their cause there is nothing you can do about it.

They made a couple points, but the vast majority of that post consisted of effectively dancing around the question.

Instead of actually providing explanations, they basically extended "I didn't like it, it sucked" to "I didn't like this character or this character or this character, OMG it was so bad like DBZ again, I didn't like this character..." Only once or twice did they actually stop and state why (aside from saying "sounds like retard," which...sorry, I fail to see that as a valid explanation).

So the fact that we still really don't have an argument from the person beyond "this was bad and this was bad and those were the LEAST of the show's problems" pretty much stands.

Kokaku wrote:

Reading this post is like getting hit on the head with a hypocrisy shovel.

And reading yours was like being buried under mountains of dumb.

Most of you kids nitpicking the FMA dub wouldn't know how to judge a performance in the first place because you have absolutely zero experience doing any REAL criticism whatsoever. You bad word because you can, because it isn't in Japanese and since you're even LESS qualified to pass any sort of judgement on the Japanese performances, you can seem elitist and cool by claiming that the English performances are inferior even though you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. News Flash: FMA in Japanese was overwrought and had a handful of bad performances in it. FMA in English is a slight improvement but still has a handful of bad performances from bit players in it. ALL dubs are like this. Claiming that it's a "travesty" is 1) not a criticism 2) hyperbole 3) needs to be backed up with something other than "seriously guys ok it sucked". You aren't going to get Academy-nominated performances from a Japanese cartoon, in either language. So stop expecting it to be as "cool" as it sounds in your head and stop trying to pretend you're capable of judging anything against the Japanese. You didn't like it, cool, say so, but don't act like the whole world agrees with you and you're 100 percent factually right and this isn't a matter of opinion.

The consensus is that it's a good dub because the voices are genuine, the emotion is there in at least 80 percent of the performances, the voices match the characters well and they didn't drastically change the meaning of anything. That's about what you can expect from a "good" dub, and expecting anything more means you sure as hell don't watch a lot of dubs. This is true for both English AND Japanese languages in anime.

You are not only stupidly arrogant, but also monsterously irrational. My point wasn't that I was caring (per se) about how expensive it is for Japanese fans. My point was that if it is, it's arrogant to assume Americans should get things cheaper because they're Americans. Japanese animation comes from Japan. If you can't handle that we have to pay more for an import item, you need to pick another hobby.

The obvious fact is that there is more demand for English versions of any given foreign-language show on television for Americans. Unfortunately, people would rather suffer through a bad dub than have to read subtitles. This is stupid, yes, but it's the way things are. You're welcomed to complain, and quite frankly, I think it would be nice to have subtitled anime on television. But it's a niche market, and you're living in a dream world.

Quote:

Ok, I never said it's my only source, so your point is moot. What I meant is that, because of sub fans being the minority, we get stuck with dishing out more effort(and dough) to watch anime in our preferred format.

That's just too bad. Personally, I'd rather spend the extra money and have the freedom to watch both versions whenever I want in a high-quality format.

Here's another part of my argument.

Is anime really that expensive? Of course it isn't. You're complaining about paying $30 for a DVD? It's reasonable for a disc that has four or five episodes, isn't it? You don't have to pay that much. It's easy to find good deals on anime on the internet. Though I will agree that if they're charging you the same price for discs with 2-3 episodes only on it, it's absurd.

hkrok76 wrote:

(For anyone that disagrees with me, I invite you to argue. If you have any actual numbers and facts, with legitimate sources e.g. website link, i would appreciate if you used those.) I really want actual numbers on viewership for these shows.

I love this!

So it's OK for you to go on for several paragraphs with only your oppinion and what you think is the truth without anything to really back you up, but if anyone is going to counter you then they really should do so with actual numbers, facts, websites and whatnot? Really, if you can't produce this stuff then why should anyone else?

Emerje

[The obvious fact is that there is more demand for English versions of any given foreign-language show on television for Americans. Unfortunately, people would rather suffer through a bad dub than have to read subtitles.