Forum - View topicWhat is the point of Ghost in the Shell?
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anime racket
Posts: 314 |
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I have frequently heard people discussing ghost in the shell, usually
with praise, and have been lead to try out different versions of the story, especially stand alone complex. However, I always find it too boring to continue. Now, don't get me wrong I love mature, highly philosophical tales such as neon genesis evangelion and ergo proxy. However GITS seems to rarely puts it's philosophy to interesting use and the characters come off as less mature, and more wooden. What is the value of these stories? |
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batou37
 Posts: 455 |
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As you can probably tell from my name I'm a large fan of GitS. It's really hard to go deeply into the different aspects of exact story and character, especially when as you say you haven't seen it all. You really find GitS boring but not Ergo Proxy? To each his (or her) own I guess. I mean don't get me wrong I liked Ergo Proxy and own it, but some of the episodes (especially on the boat) felt very long. There is a good article on wikipedia that goes over a lot of the ideas in GitS SAC. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_in_the_Shell_%28philosophy%29#Stand_Alone_Complex That might give you a little more insight into it, but I think it is still hard to appreciate something without actually watching all of it.
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anime racket
Posts: 314 |
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I guess the real question I'm asking here is why do you find these
shows worth watching and whether or not I'm "missing" something that might change my mind about them. |
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Kruszer
 Posts: 7995 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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The Ghost in the Shell franchise is, frankly, a series for smart people who enjoy sophisticated and complex anime. You will not enjoy it if you don't like engaging your brain while watching something or subjects like politics, philosophy, morality, and psychology. Personally Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex is one of my favorite anime. Why do I like it? Well first of all I like complex anime about sophisticated subjects that make me contemplate matters like the border between man and machine and sentient artificial intelligence, so it already gets a point there. Secondly it combines this with some great action, an interesting cast, good animation, and a fantastic Yoko Kano soundtrack.
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Surrender Artist
 Posts: 3264 Location: Pennsylvania, USA |
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I've not seen Neon Genesis Evangelion in at least eight years, never seen Ergo Proxy (But it is on the list) and I've not seen anything of Ghost in the Shell in something like four years, so I'll have to ask clemency if I should commit any crimes against accuracy.
The philosophical content of Ghost in the Shell is, I think, less personal in its applicability than that of Neon Genesis Evangelion. If I recall correctly, the philosophy in Neon Genesis Evangelion was largely about finding a philosophical perspective that resolved a crisis of personal identity and self-worth. The philosophical content of Ghost in the Shell is, by contrast, more concerned with abstract social concepts and human relationships with technology than with individual perspective or emotion as is Neon Genesis Evangelion. So you might find it uninteresting because it's more philosophy as an intellectual curiosity than as something personally applicable. I confess that I'm genuinely very surprised that you consider Ghost in the Shell, or its characters, immature in relation to Neon Genesis Evangelion given that, well, it struck me as a quintessentially adolescent series whereas Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex seemed more genuinely adult. |
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HaruhiToy
 Posts: 4118 |
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For the most part I agree with the assessment of Ghost in the Shell as one in the more "mature" category, but I always had a hard time reconciling that to the terminally-retarded Tachikoma personalities they stuck in there. It's like someone stuck some slapstick into Serial Experiments Lain. |
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anime racket
Posts: 314 |
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Yeah, It's not that I find the characters immature It's that the
characters have a forced maturity that makes them seem wooden. As for Kruszer's statements; I love shows that engage my brain and politics, philosophy, morality, and psychology are my favorite subjects in anime. It's just that shows like evangelion, ergo proxy, and even serial experiments lain handle them with much more style and visual flair than GITS imo. |
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Kruszer
Posts: 7995 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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Well, I personally like all of those as well. I don't see any reason to dislike one and not the others. I think the characters are supposed to be a little disconnected with emotions because: a.) They're black ops cops and that kind of comes with the job b.) Also it drives home the point the series is trying to make. You could try switching language tracks. Personally I find series like these work better dubbed. All I can really say is that if you don't like it, don't watch it.It also might be a good idea to avoid other Masamune Shirow works too because they're pretty much all like that. |
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jsc315
 Posts: 925 |
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Then don't watch it if you don't like it! Really whats the point of this trying to convince you to watch a show you dont want to watch or like?
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batou37
Posts: 455 |
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While I agree with you to some degree, I also feel that GitS goes deeper than that and actually touches on the core of self identity. The idea of a "ghost" causes one to question exactly what makes me, actually me. Are they still the same individual when their brains are put into a cyborg body? Does it boil down to personal experiences that make up who you are, or is there more to it? Batou's weights and the Major's watch serve to in part represent the continuity of their lives throughout their changes. Major Kusanagi is a good example of this as she goes through many changes throughout the series, but still remains herself (but admittedly also more.) To me the Tachikomas are used more as a display of an emerging consciousness that is self aware rather than just as slapstick. While it might seem that they are only there for comic relief, I have always personally felt that they were more like children who with this new found sense of self are trying to feel their way into life. They are goofy and play around sure, but that is common for someone who is just growing up. |
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Tris8
 Posts: 2114 Location: Where the rain is. |
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So Gits is really popular and pretty acclaimed and I think anime racket is just trying to understand its popularity and the messages behind the stories. Correct me if Im wrong. |
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Anymouse
 Posts: 685 |
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I personally feel the Tachikomas as they are portrayed in the show are somewhat of a twist on the "cute endearing character" concept.
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anime racket
Posts: 314 |
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Tris8 is absolutely right. GITS has repeatedly caught my attention
over the years with cool art and highly favorable reviews but when I try to watch it, it feels pointless and really, inhuman. I'm certain I must be missing something considering all the praise It's gotten. It's sad that I find the tachikomas to be the best aspect of the story. Btw, I find it funny that you mentioned Revolutionary Girl Utena because I've watched a dvd of that series too and have some problems appreciating it as well. Although I find it infinitely more human. |
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Tris8
Posts: 2114 Location: Where the rain is. |
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Gits is kinda similar I'd say in that to get the ball rolling of realizing all the metaphors and philosophy you need some discussion. Was there any specific parts or characters you have a bone to pick with? |
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ailblentyn
 Posts: 1688 Location: body in Ohio, heart in Sydney |
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I have no patience with the "ideas" of Ghost in the Shell, which I don't find deep in the slightest. But I love the first movie for its pacing: the wonderfully Oshii-esque way the scenes develop, the use of interactions, background and music to create a mood that is so specific and tangible it's almost a philosophy itself.
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