Forum - View topicUS Animation? Good, Bad or Terrible?
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Shadowwave
Posts: 58 |
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Revolution -The overthrow of one government and its replacement with another. A sudden or momentous change in a situation.
Democracy - The common people, considered as the primary source of political power. FCC - We have government representatives stuck in a system where they must spend time raising money by making promises and selling influence to the money givers, instead of spending time making a better world for the people. anime/animation - Kids Love It! Viacom- (Kids entertainment) CBS,Nickolodeon, MTV, UPN,WB-TV - (Kids entertainment) Those who have money can make campaign donations to influence laws for their benefit. This is legal bribery, which constitutes a system design flaw.Politicians spend allot of time raising campaign funds in order to get elected or reelected, and subsequently they make promises in exchange for donations. Herb Scannel - President of Viacom Jamie Kellner - former VP of Viacom/ curently head of WB-TV Mr. Kellner's responsibilities include corporate oversight of the Turner domestic and international entertainment networks, among them TBS Superstation, Turner Network Television (TNT), The WB Network, Cartoon Network, Turner Classic Movies, Turner South, Boomerang, TNT Latin America, Cartoon Network Latin America, TCM & Cartoon Network in Europe, TCM & Cartoon Network in Asia Pacific and Cartoon Network Japan. He also oversees the CNN News Group, which includes CNN/U.S., CNN Headline News, CNNfn, CNN/SI, CNNRadio, CNN Newsource, CNN Airport Network and CNN.com. Mr. Kellner has overall responsibility for all news and entertainment advertising and distribution, both domestically and internationally, as well as for all corporate administrative functions. WB-TV - former employees of Viacom Viacom WB-TV ATTack The cuts and programming decisions by the WB TV leadership seriously damaged the Cartoon Network's ability to keep a unified schedule and build on its past successes. WB TV leadership made (or were responsible for) the following changes: Forcing out Betty Cohen, the president of the network. Replacing her with a "General Manager," Jim Samples. Reducing one of the most successful blocks, Toonami, to only 2 hours. Moving Toonami to one of the worst time periods for such a block. Cutting new, quality programming and development. Slashing the acquistions budget (used for getting new series). Forcing out Dea Perez, the acquisitions executive for the network. Forcing the Turner Entertainment networks to all share one acquisitions executive, Jonathan Katz. |
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Tomoyo714
 Posts: 73 Location: NY State |
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I thought I remembered there was a thread on this and I had to dig it up...
I agree hands down 100% that Anime is better then American animation, but I think with the populatrity of anime rising and companies out there seeing they can make money on more plot driven shows they are starting to produce them. I reason I write this is I have been watching the new Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles cartoon and I am very impressed. I have been a fan for years but the old cartoon seems to fall in the pitfalls that many US cartoons have. No real week to week plot. More yeah the Turles are good, Shedder is bad...watch them fight....stupid bad guys do stupid things...people laugh...so on and so forth, but the new cartoon is excellent. Most of the plots are actually drawn from the old comics, its is a continuing story that will pan for all 26 episodes of the season. The animation is pretty good, even thought I think they are trying to make it look "anime" like many studios are doing now. Over all I am begining to have faith is US animation again....Oh and Gargoyles was excellent too...well at least the first two seasons, the last season that was on Saturday mornings sucked... Just me two cents! 
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Slim Shinji
Past ANN Contributor
 Posts: 263 |
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Yes! Laugh if you must, nonbelievers, but the new TMNT cartoon (so far) is great stuff. I'd place it second only to Bruce Timm/Paul Dini's Batman work as a grade-A American action toon. While I hesitate to call it "sophisticated", it's way more intelligent than the old cartoon or the live-action movies. It's got an "anime-style" continuing story arc. And some of the strongest characterizations I've ever seen on a Saturday Morning Cartoon. Ever. So far, at least. It's only three episodes in, and I suppose it could get stupid before it's over with. But I really hope it doesn't! |
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LordByronius
ANN Columnist
 Posts: 861 Location: Philippe for America! He is five. |
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What's that? A NON-STUPID Ninja Turtles cartoon?!?
To live in a world with a NON-STUPID Ninja Turtles cartoon is to live in a world of lies. |
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Cassandra
 Posts: 1356 Location: Birdsboro, PA |
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Yeah...I saw two episodes of it and it's pretty good. Though, I'm completely confused by the April O'Neill character so far :/ Not exactly the old April we're all used to... |
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Aya Reiko
 Posts: 166 Location: Nowhere and Somewhere |
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At least they're willing to do something different with animation. For the most part, we're still stuck with the Puritan mentality in regards to T.V. entertainment. But that's the same almost regardless of medium, not just animation. But the problem is the general public's mentality is so Disneyfied, hardly anyone is willing even try anything new outside of the safe PG-rated status quo. |
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nagash
Posts: 280 |
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American animation has its ups and downs. I really don't watch much nowadays, but that's more because I work 3rd shift and there aren't any one in the morning.
Batman and Batman Beyond, Dexter, Johnny Brovo, Animaniacs, and the old Bugs Bunny cartoons. Everyone has grown up watching some form of animation. Today, the animation is getting a bit more sophisticated, but not enough to leave kids behind. Still, I can sit and watch Tom and Jerry and still laugh. Of course, there is a lot of animation out there if you know where to look. For instents, if you live around Boston, you're probablly keeping your eyes out for the next animation fest at one of a few local theaters, or good old Spike & Mike's fest. I noticts, last year, that there were two Spike & Mike fests. The second one was the original, 18+, adults only show. The first one was a PG-13 at best. It was a nice grouping of animation from around the world. I remember one was so sad that my wife was crying at the end, but it was a great piece of animation. Of course, the one they showed after that was so funny you were crying because you fell out of your chair in laughter. If you do go to one of those shows, keep your eyes out on who's animation is being showed. Some of those animaters have won Oscors for their efferts. I remember one in particular. I don't know if it ever made it on video somewhere (if it did, please tell me!). You might remember a piece that used to show on MTV's Liquid Television called Stick Figure Theater. This was done by the same guy. He entered two pieces into the festival. You've probably seen the second one which features his failed ads (My spoon is too big). The first one is much more funny. It's called The Baloons and you will die laughing after you figure out what's going on. The Baloons did win an Oscor for animation. It was well worth it IMHO. Another one you might want to check out. It's by Pixar. It's called For The Birds. |
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LordByronius
ANN Columnist
Posts: 861 Location: Philippe for America! He is five. |
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You're speaking of the inimitable Don Hertzfeldt, who has a website over at http://www.bitterfilms.com The "failed ads" cartoon is called Rejected, which sadly did not win an Academy Award but was nominated for one. You can buy a DVD of Rejected from the website too! I know because I bought one there myself, and it is great. Has a neat deleted scene featuring father-son bonding through blood drinking. And THANK YOU for acknowledging independant animation when speaking of US animation. Most fanboys seem only to compare american COMMERCIAL animation to anime, which of course will not stack up. |
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cookie
Former ANN Editor in Chief
 Posts: 2460 Location: Do not contact me for support. |
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A lot of development in American animation can be found on PBS. Some of Brian Jacques' "Redwall" books are now in cartoon form, for example. I know quite a few adults who enjoy the "Redwall" books.. And so it comes as no suprise that I know quite a few adults who enjoy the Redwall cartoon (found on PBS). The TV adaptation is less violent than the original, but the fighting and the violence has never been a primary facet of the book series[1]. Instead, acts of aggression and compassion comprise most of the books, and violent scenes typically only occur at brief, specific moments. The slaying of Asmodeus in Redwall, for example, "Liberty Kids" gives a reasonable accounting of the Revolutionary War, as told from the eyes of kids. From what little I saw, it didn't appear to overly romanticize the war. "Sagwa" (er, wonder if that's spelled right) is an interesting series about cats in ancient China.. it's got all sorts of references to Chinese lore, such as the Chinese zodiac. It's not very complex, but then again, it's not really aimed at anyone over the age of 10. |
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radioactivemouse
Posts: 23 |
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Well, i'll say this: I respect BOTH Japanese and US animation.
They both offer things that are great, but then again...they both produce a lot of crap. I'm actually ticked at the people that are so narrow minded to think that there's nothing worthy of US animation other than the fact that it fills time on TV. It shows no consideration to the actual work involved in creating 2d animation. Much of the Japanese animation gets brought over cause it's good. Nobody wants to see crap anime (though there is a lot that does come over) and so only Japanes natives see the ugly stuff. Most of that stuff gets stored in some shelf in the dungeons of people's anime houses. What matters in ANY animation is wether a story can be told efficiently through the medium of animation. Characters, mecha and animation technology are great, but I belive they enhance the story. I've taken animation courses and I've taught anime courses. It's a shame that people are so quick to write off US animation but are so loyal to anime just because it's different. |
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Tenchi
 Posts: 4556 Location: Ottawa... now I'm an ex-Anglo Montrealer. |
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Yes, I don't think Japanese animation is better or worse than American animtion... just different. What I want to watch really depends on my mood... it's hard for me to qualify or codify why I prefer watching Japanese animation sometimes and why I prefer watching American/Canadian animation sometimes, I just do. I'd say I prefer Japanese animation when I'm in the mood for something a little more serious, but, in actuality, the bulk of the anime of which I am most fond are comedies (Urusei Yatsura, You're Under Arrest, Tenchi Muyo), comedy/drama hybrids (Patlabor, Kimagure Orange Road) or kids' shows with heavy comedic elements (Sailor Moon, Cardcaptor Sakura), so it's just that sometimes I want a different flavour of comedy than the American/Canadian cartoons I like the most (King of the Hill, South Park, older Simpsons, Futurama and an obscure Canadian series called Untalkative Bunny). Hell, my favourite "serious" anime is Yokohama Shopping Log, and that's not exactly the most "heavy", "Sombre" anime there is out there. As for movies, I liked, but was not blown away by, Spirited Away, or, at the very least, I wasn't quite as impressed by Spirited Away as I was by Lilo & Stitch.
And, yes, I have seen the work of independent animators... I did write up a positive review of Bill Plympton's Mutant Aliens on Yahoo movies (cut-and-pasted from a message I wrote on the old board here), though I would be lying if I said it's the sort of American animation I prefer, although some of the American/Canadian animation I really like is from animators that started out independent. |
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nagash
Posts: 280 |
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I just thought of something that puts animation in perspective. We've had previous threads that dealt with why anime is so hard to get on t.v. in an unedited format. It's a matter of changing opinion, and I believe I can say that someone might have found a way, if only for the short term.
I recently attended a convention called Boskone. I was helping to run the game room, which was right next to the anime room. They had a good mix of anime this year, but it was what they played in between the anime that brought in the crowd. Boskone is run by the same group of people that are hosting Worldcon in 2004 (Noreascon 4 is the official title of the convention). Every year, at every worldcon, the Hugo Awards are given out. The N4 committee decided to give it a twist for 2004. They'll have the normal Hugo awards, but they're also having a retro-Hugo awards. The year in question: 1953. It turns out that 1953 turned out one of the all-time best cartoons ever produced. It is a looney tunes cartoon. I never thought I'd see it, but kids wanted to watch the anime and they dragged their parents into the room. The parents stayed to watch the filler in between the anime. And so, you have the parents sitting through anime they didn't really want to see, but you suddenly see them liking what they're watching. Of course, their kids may be scarred for life after that filler cartoon ran. You see, when you're in a room, and 20 - 30 adults over 30 years old (myself included) start screaming (in unison with the image on-screen) Duck Dodgers of the 24th and a half Century! they tend to creep away from their parents. Yes, 1953 was the year that Daffy Duck played Duck Dodgers, and it's one of the most loved of all time. It's also the first time anyone got to see Marvin T. Martian. Little by little, you expose more people to anime, little by little, you gain more acceptance. Remember, the parents had to sit through GateKeepers, Furi Kuri, etc. to see Daffy. I could go on about how that works in the game room as well (bring old games that everyone knows how to play but put them in the middle of the newer games that the older crowd never heard of). I know a lot of guys older than me were holding Chez Dork like a cherished family emblum. The premise of the game is to be the first to collect 25 points worth of collectibles. If you're into sci-fi (and attend the cons) and you're 30 or older, then odds are you have at least one rare item in your posession. This game simulates that. In any event, although I do like a lot of commercial cartoons, I admit they are usually for laughs, whereas independent animation tends to be more seroius and thought provoking. |
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avius viator
 Posts: 101 Location: Ohio |
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I agree that american animation should not be so easily written off. Like radioactivemouse said, its the quality of the storytelling that counts. What makes animation so wonderful is that it is such a versitile artform. I think the posts in this forum reflect this (mentioning everything from the classic WB shorts, to some great inde stuff that can be found on the web). In general though, US animation tends toward humor. (with great shows like Simpsons and The Tick). And the majority of series are episodic. Part of what drew me to Japanese animation was the prospect of complex, well devolped storylines... something I could sink my teeth into. Like, SE Lain... if that doesn't leave you thinking I don't know what will. I also find that the artwork in US animation tends to be more abstract... very deformed, unrealistic (often not human) characters. Its just stylistic. But the background animation is often the biggest disappointment (though that may be somewhat a style choice too). Prime examples would be Ed,Edd,and Eddy and Sylvester & Tweety Mysteries. I think Justice League, Batman and the like fair quite well though. As does Samuri Jack... some interesting design work there.
The point is that there are some good animated shows out there. They are different than the Japanese stuff that we all like, but that doesn't make them bad, or anyless groundbreaking. Its just written for a different culture...one that takes its tradition from the great WB classics, one that perhaps perfers more instant gradification, and one that views animation differently. I don't suppose I've said anything too new, I think we're pretty much all in agreement here. Incidently, why the hell am I still awake?! |
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Animan
Posts: 65 |
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I find these contemporary shows to be terrific and would put them on the shelf right next to my anime collection:
Samurai Jack, Kim Possible, X-men Evolution, Powerpuff Girls, Static Shock (first and second season episodes--third season, so far, has not been as enjoyable as years 1 & 2), the Proud Family, Jackie Chan Adventures, and almost anything and everything by Bruce Timm and Paul Dini (Batman, Superman, Batman Beyond, and Justice League). Anyone who thinks Japanese anime sucks or thinks American animation sucks is missing a great party. |
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ashram12
Posts: 86 |
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I'm biased towards anime myself, but I think the notion that anime is inherently better than US animation to be wrong. ..Just watch Angel Links (pretty bishonen in there despite the horribly boring story).
Ultimately, I think the commercial animation availbale in both countries have pretty bad handicaps: in America most animations are comedies; while in Japan...my biggest problem is the fact that all the character designs look similar. |
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