Forum - View topicAnime DVD Prices
|
Goto page 1, 2 Next |
| Author | Message | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
Masa95000
Posts: 2 |
|
|||||
|
First off, please forgive me if there is already a post on this forum about anime DVD prices. I am new, and if there is already an existing post, please direct me to it.
During my recent visit to Japan, I noticed that the anime DVDs sold there were quite expensive. Well, at least expensive for the content you got on the discs. The person I was staying with recently bought the second Blu-Ray of Tiger & Bunny (an entertaining show that I will not go into detail about here). It was a limited edition that had three discs with a soundtrack and not much else. What really surprised me, was that each disc only housed one episode from the series. I thought this was strange because isn't the whole point of Blu-Ray that it can store more? I mean, the most recent Blu-Ray I bought's DVD equivalent had 2 discs, but this one just had one. Well anyway, this limited edition cost about ¥7,389. That's a little more than 74USD. After I had time to think about this a little, I told her about US releases and how usually each individual volume had one disc but that one disc housed a good portion of the series with no problem. She thought that this was amazing like she had never heard of such a thing, which leads me to believe that the above situation with Tiger & Bunny is standard operating procedure. So I was just wondering why the Japanese releases (I know they come with extra stuff but that really shouldn't raise the price THAT much) are so much more expensive than perhaps higher quantity American releases. In fact, I just bought 2 DBZ Dragon Boxes and 2 Kai sets and that cost about $56 which is nowhere close to the amount she paid for a soundtrack with three Blu-Rays with three episodes. |
||||||
|
||||||
ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
|
|||||
|
Simply put, because they can get away with it. Their core group of otaku will pay pretty much whatever they ask.
Personally, I think it's a pretty self-destructive plan in the long run. It drives away new or more casual fans and makes the industry increasingly insular. Apparently though they think that at least short term it's more profitable to milk the otaku for all they're worth. And hey, maybe that's true. |
||||||
|
||||||
luffypirate
 Posts: 3187 |
|
|||||
|
I hear it's to make back the money spent on production. It sucks because there are a lot of Japanese titles I'd be interested in buying, but I can't afford them working an average paying job.
|
||||||
|
||||||
hissatsu01
 Posts: 963 Location: NYC |
|
|||||
You're a little off there. To be exact, the 2nd volume of Tiger & Bunny comes with a BD with episodes 2-4 on it, and an audio drama CD. And it's quite a bit more than $74. More like $95 with the current awful exchange rate. Though as in the US, if you pay retail, you're a sucker.
Yes, it's normal. 2 cour (22-26 episode) series usually get 3 episodes per volume, 1 cour (11-13 episode) series usually get 2 episodes per volume. Though I'm a bit skeptical of your acquaintance never having heard of more episodes per disc: JP DVD box sets usually have 4-5 episodes per disc, and JP BD box sets usually have 5-8 episodes per disc.
Ahhh... this again. If I had to count the times I've heard this for the better part of two decades now. You're not really paying for the packaging or the discs. You're paying for the cost of production, of which the discs/packaging are only a small part. US releases are cheap because they don't have to cover the the original cost of production - if they did, next to no anime currently sold in the US would be profitable at all. I'm talking having to sell tens of thousands of copies at US prices - does any anime sold in the US reach that level any more? Meanwhile in Japan, late night anime (probably 95% of the anime covered on ANN) makes no money at all from the broadcast - they don't make money from commercials like in the US. All the profit has to come from the BDs/DVDs and merchandising. As for the "If they would just drop their prices like the US, then they would sell way more" argument, I can only say "Get real!" Lower priced re-releases exist in Japan, as they do in the US, and they're often a fraction of the original cost (1/4 is not unusual). Guess what, they don't sell any better than the original releases - they often sell worse. There are at most a few hundred thousand adults in Japan that buy anime on a regular basis. Dropping prices would increase sales, but not nearly to the extent needed to make up for the decreased revenue per sale from lower prices. It isn't going to make people who aren't interested in anime become interested. Ask yourself this - what other country in the world has an animation industry comparable to Japan's that creates content aimed at adults? All late night anime is aimed at adult audiences - they may be considered weird or perverted adults, but adults they are. But it's a niche audience; it's not as if it's considered normal for an adult to watch anime in Japan. It's for children and weirdos. So when you have a small audience you're either going to have very high prices and people willing to pay those prices, or it's going to cease to exist. In any country other than Japan, it would have likely ceased to exist a long time ago. But yes, let smug people on the other side of the world continue to mock those "stupid otaku" for paying those ridiculous prices while they pay much less (or not at all) to enjoy anime whose continued existence depends on those same stupid otaku and their willingness to part with their money. |
||||||
|
||||||
Megiddo
 Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
|
|||||
|
Otaku in Japan take pride in paying money for the things they love.
Whether you view that as a positive or a negative, it is true, and that tiny group of otaku is pretty much what keeps the anime industry afloat. |
||||||
|
||||||
P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
 Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
|
|||||
|
It kinda makes you feel bad for the Japanese, how us outside of Japan can enjoy relatively inexpensive DVD collections of anime at the expense of otaku that pour so much money into keeping the industry alive. More like a feeling of guilt that we have it easy, and we complain about local DVD/BD prices, but without the devoted otaku consumer base, no one would have anime, and they are so enormously taken for granted and not even appreciated for making the existence of what we love possible.
It's kind of exploitative in a way, akin to other foreign imports and resources like oil where 3rd world country workers essential for it's cheap production are faced with low wages and hard, long workdays and here in America we have people with cush jobs driving around gas guzzling SUVs. Maybe I'm exaggerating a bit, but I think the analogy is fair, especially if you consider the low wages that typical animators get. I think many otaku are out of touch with the notion of an anime industry in other countries, or don't really care. Which is why it wouldn't be unheard of that Japanese who buy anime have no idea that many anime fans overseas pay a lot less per episode, and get more episodes per sku overall. I also think its very rare to find native Japanese who import for the sake of saving money, more like it's almost totally unheard of and may be more tied to the culture and society itself and not just a lack of thrifty attitudes that's more commonplace for westerners. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
|
|||||
You're correct that the Japanese companies have much larger costs to cover compared to the R1 companies. However, the prices in Japan are higher because that's what they believe will produce the highest gross revenue and that's it. I'm afraid it has nothing to do with higher costs. Ultimately, their costs could be zero and they would still charge whatever they think gives them the highest gross revenue. That's just how it works. I mean, you think the R1 companies wouldn't charge $70+ a disc if they thought enough people would pay it? Of course. (Some have in the past or even still do now). The only reason this isn't the norm in the R1 industry though is vastly different demand curves. As you said, in Japan there is a very small but very committed market for anime. Lower prices don't greatly increase sales and higher prices don't greatly diminish sales. In North America however, fans are much more casual and much less committed. Lower prices drastically increases demand and higher prices virtually eliminate it. Hence, your highest gross revenue (price * quantity sold) will be at a low price in North America and a high price in Japan. Again though, It's purely an issue of demand, not one of costs. Businesses are always going to try and maximize revenue. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
hissatsu01
Posts: 963 Location: NYC |
|
|||||
That is a truism. All industries charge what they believe will get them the most revenue. And it's irrelevant in this situation, because when you have a relatively small market and high production costs (combined with the lack of revenue from the broadcast), you don't have any options other than high pricing. You cannot have low pricing when the average title only sells in the low thousands. The difference with the the US market is they can afford to sell at a lower price and still generate a profit. Switch to US style pricing in Japan and the only shows that would remain profitable would be the ones that sell tens of thousands of copies per volume and those that make most of their revenue from merchandising. The other 90% of shows? Goodbye. |
||||||
|
||||||
FaytLein
 Posts: 1260 Location: Williamsburg, VA |
|
|||||
|
Well, the Japanese market is a completely different beast compared to the US market. In Japan, most anime is made as a part of a larger group (an anime company, manga company and a merchandising company) all chip in money to get a show made. Now for most late night anime the anime studio has to PAY MONEY to get their show on the air. After a show has aired, the only real way for the actual anime company can recoup funds is by selling DVD/Blu Ray sets for a higher price, not so much as a bilking of fans, but its the only way they can stay in business. Manga and merch sales might drip a little in their direction, especially if the product is popular enough to bring the three groups back together again, but for the most part, the actual studios need the revenue from physical media sales to stay afloat.
And as to why Japanese companies haven't embraced streaming or same day releases equivalent to US counterparts, it would be the equivalent of taking a trip out in the ocean, cutting your boat in half, and trying to repair/improve the boat while you sink. Most anime studios are barely hanging on, depending on the small otaku crowd in Japan to keep themselves afloat. In the US, if DVD sales aren't that great, other revenue is available to keep going, but in Japan currently if sales drop or are nowhere near good enough, bad things happen. Its the reason why the Japanese market has become very otaku-pandering, if moeblob girls and slice of life sell a lot, that is what companies will make in order to stay alive. Japan's economy isn't like it was in the 80's, where money was flowing like water and experimentation was kind of the norm, now everything is kind of a day by day basis. And the studios aren't going to risk their wellbeing to cater to fans in another country, especially since US DVD sales are kind of lacking. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
|
|||||
Fortunately Japan has been largely resistant to it, and stand their ground when they believe that their own fans can support their industry. The Japanese like that, they're stubborn to accept help especially if they sense that help has ulterior motives. As long as Japanese anime can exist on it's own devices, I'm happy with it. I'm happy with whatever they churn out, I'll learn to like it and I already do, and I always have. I just wish, as a consumer I could do more to both maintain the status quo and give a little bit extra. So to me this sort of sink-or-swim situation Japan is in right now is actually more of a blessing than a curse. But would prefer more prosperity on their part. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
|
|||||
No. That is utterly absurd. The R1 companies are not sitting there and thinking "oh okay, we could sell this for more but instead we'll sell this series for $30 because we can afford to do so and still make a profit". They're selling it at $30 because they know that they'll make more money overall by selling it cheap. If they raised the price then so few people would buy it that they would actually make less money in total. It's as simple as that. Same goes for Japan. Even if production costs were much lower and the Japanese could "afford to" sell DVDs at a lower price and still make a profit they still wouldn't. They're still gonna sell at the price that maximizes profits. Look, I'm not trying to suggest that the Japanese companies are being greedy or anything. I'm also not disputing your assertion that Japanese companies wouldn't turn a profit if they sold DVDs for cheap. I'm just saying it's a pretty specious point. Whatever the respective costs, it wouldn't change the prices here or in Japan. Hence, I don't think you can claim that higher costs are one of the reasons for higher Japanese prices. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
hissatsu01
Posts: 963 Location: NYC |
|
|||||
|
You're reading in too much. All I said was that low pricing is an possibility that exists in the US market which doesn't exist in the Japanese market. I never said anything about its viability vs. higher prices in the US. And it's not as if there haven't been limited cases of higher pricing working in the US.
Actually, I think one could argue that the drop in prices in the US anime market have done little good for revenues. Multiple companies have gone under, the market has shrunk drastically, and has continued to shrink year after year for what, 5 years now? And prices are the lowest they've ever been. It's not like it's lead to an end of whining about "high prices."
If production costs were much lower, prices would probably drop somewhat. After all, lower prices do increase sales in the JP market, just not by much. But without the burden of production costs to deal with it could well be enough to shift the point where profit is maximized. Nothing is going to bring Japanese prices to US levels; even Hollywood movie BDs are about twice the price they are here. But if dropping prices by 20% increased sales enough to increase revenue by 25%, why wouldn't they do it? If in your hypothetical reality where production costs aren't an issue, how could the market not have more freedom to adjust pricing than it does now? If the level needed to be reached to be profitable were drastically lowered, you're seriously going to insist that it absolutely would have no effect? Even as things are now, occasionally gambles or risky projects get the green light. T&B mentioned at the beginning of this thread would probably fall into that category - that gamble paid off. Right now the few really successful shows have to make up for all the shows that barely turn a profit and the complete duds. Drastically lower costs of production would mean a lot fewer duds and more opportunity for experimentation. Your insistence that such a drastic change to conditions under which the industry operates would have no effect on pricing at all assumes facts not in evidence, unless if you've been to this alternate reality and came back with sales data. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
samuelp
Industry Insider
Posts: 2252 Location: San Antonio, USA |
|
|||||
I think you're both missing an important point here: You've got it backwards in most situations (this applies to more otaku targeted shows): It's the production budget that is set based on the expected sales, not the price that is set based on the production budget. I.e. a production committee is formed, and the member distributing the blu-rays, say, Kadokawa, looks at the target audience and sets a price they feel will maximize sales. For Kadokawa that's usually "2-3 episodes a disc at 8000" or so. Then, they look at the predicted number of sales for a show of a similar genre, do the math, and that's what determines how much each member of the production committee invests in the show. After that, they take that pool of money and decide how much of it goes for production, marketing, etc. Occasionally shows will get big budgets from certain companies who are gambling on it, but that's the exception to the rule. For the most part, your standard 1 cour show's blu-ray prices are fixed entirely based on what they think the target audience will pay. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
|
|||||
They would. However, if all that were the case...why don't they do that right now? This is precisely my point. You're trying to have it both ways. There's no reason why such a decrease would be beneficial without costs but wouldn't also be beneficial right now with costs. It has to be one or the other. Therefore, conversely, if right now anime can generate the greatest total revenue by selling at a price of $70+ dollars, getting rid of production costs won't change that.
Okay...and that has nothing to do with what we're talking about. I don't think you really understand how this works at all. We're talking about price. Production costs have absolutely zero to do with price*. It certainly effects profits. No question that companies profits would be much higher with lower production costs. Let me explain the difference: The profits a company makes on a production are going to equal the total amount of money they bring in (the total revenue) minus the total costs of producing the show. (Profit = Revenue - Costs) So sure, if you lower those costs the profits will increase. However, price is an entirely different question. In a case like this where supply is essentially infinite, a company will determine the price by picking the point at which revenues are maximized (because the more revenue, the more profits). Now, the total revenue for a production is going to equal the price on each sale multiplied by the number of sales. So basically, the company wants to pick the price point where price and units sold balance to produce the greatest possible total revenue. Where exactly that point is depends entirely on the consumer demand for the item at the various price levels. For instance, at $30 you might get 10,000 sales. That's a total revenue of $300,000. At $70 you might get 5,000 sales. That's a total revenue of $350,000. Again, this is entirely dependant on consumer demand and how many people are willing to buy the DVD at various prices. Here's the key point though: None of that has anything to do with costs. Whatever chunk of revenue is lost (or isn't) due to costs, it doesn't matter. They still want to maximize profits which means maximizing revenue. Costs have nothing to do with how you maximize revenue. Whether costs are high or low it won't change the consumer demand and thus the price point at which revenue is maximized will remain the same. Does this clear things up at all? *At least this kind of lump sum production costs
Okay. That's a semi-legitimate point. It could be that with lower production costs and the resulting higher profits/lower risks, anime companies would be more willing to take risks and experiment with lower prices. That...could be. Although it could just as well be that companies simply think their best bet is to stick with the prices they have now. So this is largely speculation. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
hissatsu01
Posts: 963 Location: NYC |
|
|||||
|
Okay, this argument has become ridiculous. Drop the "you don't understand anything" crap. Or would you like to continue assuming that you're the only one that understands that profit = revenue - costs? I'd prefer straight up insults to insults to my intelligence.
No, the customer doesn't know or likely care about your costs, just the price you set. But your costs directly affect your profitability. The current situation of high production costs and relatively inelastic demand mean that while lower prices increase sales modestly, that increase in sales isn't nearly enough to increase revenue. That is why prices cannot come down as things are now. But if production costs were to be cut drastically as in your hypothetical situation, unless if price has absolutely no effect on demand, the price point where revenue (and thus profit) are maximized is going to move downwards. Maybe not a great deal, but for your entire argument to be true demand must be absolutely inelastic; not a single sale more resulting from lower prices. In this hypothetical market, it would require a smaller increase in units sold to make lowering prices a good idea than it does under current market conditions. You keep on obliquely telling me I'm too stupid to understand your argument, so I'm sure you can continue with the patronizing. |
||||||
|
||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group