Forum - View topicDBZ should have ended at the Frieza Saga.
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SecretAgent94
 Posts: 204 |
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I was watching some DBZ Kai on youtube and I was discussing this with a youtube commenter. He said something like this.
Everything from Episode 1 of Dragonball to the final episode of the Frieza saga in DBZ lines up perfectly. Goku is found by Bulma He trains and becomes stronger. He eventually finds out about the Saiyans. He finally becomes the Legendary Super Saiyan; the first in 1000 years and avenges his people; however he dies avenging his people on Namek. Gohan is left on Earth to take on Goku's role as defender of Earth against threats including Vegeta. Now tell me that is not the most awesome ending ever. Now of course, DBZ would not be anywhere as popular without the Cell and Buu sagas; but all they were was awesome fight scenes and moments with maybe a hint of story in there somewhere. Plus the loss of credibility of the "Super Saiyan" transformation makes me mad. And all that Super Saiyan 1, 1.5, 2, 3, 4 nonsense SMH. Kid Goten and Trunks being able to become a SS is a complete slap in the face to the Frieza saga as well as everything that came before it. (You're telling me that kid Goten>> Frieza? Vegeta and Nappa in Saiyan Saga? Jeice, Yamcha, Kid Goku?) . My point is that DBZ wouldn't be as popular with that ending, but it would have been a better show.[/b] |
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DCR
 Posts: 101 |
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I have to desagree.
The Cell Saga was awesome and has a lot of mind blowing moments. The first of them being Trunks killing Freezer. Also, it has a better ending that the Freeza saga, especially in the anime, where the Goku vs Freeza fight is infamous for being too, too long. A lot of good fights, too (Piccolo vs Android 17 is one of the best of the show). And the SSJ2 where not as over the top or ridiculous as the SSJ3. The Buu Saga, yeah, I have to agree, despite some good things (a return to Dragon Ball humour with Gotenks and Mr Satan), it was barely ok in manga and lame in anime. And the SSJ3 is the lamest design Toriyama ever came with (What? SSJ4? Shut... shut up! That never existed! Never!). But in the other side, without the Buu Saga, there would not have been any GohanxVidel or Futanariandroid18xVidel hentai doujins, so maybe it was worth it, after all. 
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John Casey
 Posts: 1853 Location: In My Angry Center |
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The Frieza Saga was technically supposed to be the end for the Dragonball manga altogether.
Then Toriyama was pressured, even received death threats, to keep on pushing. Blame the fantards and greedy businessmen for whats happened to it. |
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garfield15
 Posts: 1541 |
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Does anybody have any actual documents/references proving that?
I'll believe Cell saga was where he wanted to end it (since, you know, it was actually in the interviews) but the rest of that...no. |
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Thhyon
 Posts: 169 |
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Read Here (Very Long Article)
http://daizex.fanboyreview.net/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=15102 |
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garfield15
Posts: 1541 |
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Uh dude?
Like the article says, it's not that it's not a possible thought, but there just isn't any real proof backing it. |
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Illusionary_Systems
 Posts: 50 |
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DBZ should have ended at the Cell Saga.
In every saga up till then a protagonist would gain a significant increase in his abilities that would allow him to overcome a great adversary. In the Frieza Saga Goku becomes a Super Saiyajin and defeats Frieza. In the Cell Saga Goku's son transcends Super Saiyajin and defeats Cell. In the Buu saga the characters, especially Goku, took far too many unwarranted (and stupid) risks. Was it any wonder that everyone on Earth ended up getting killed? Super Saiyajin 3 was quite ridiculous and the fusions and powerups the characters received amounted to nothing in the end. In the Buu Saga the characters missed so many opportunities to finish the villain even when they had a huge advantage. Many people dislike the GT series, but if you really look at it a lot of the problems with that series stem from the precedent that the Buu Saga set. |
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EireformContinent
 Posts: 977 Location: Łódź/Poland (The Promised Land) |
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The problem was that in Boo Saga characters reached the top. In GT everyone notable enough to be mentioned become his own caricature. There were no one superior to them, so they could only fall. Or retrain.
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
 Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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While in terms of the meta-story, I agree that DBZ probably should've ended with Freiza. However, there is one storyline which started at the beginning of DBZ and continued until the end. An important one: the Vegeta Redemption.
Initially, Vegeta is a heartless jerk who only values strength: the stronger crush the weaker beneath them, and that is the way things work. Over time, we gradually see him change until, at the end, he becomes a genuine Good Guy. So, if only for watching Vegeta change, I thought it was worth watching the Buu Saga. |
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doctordoom85
 Posts: 2094 |
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YMMV. As far as I'm concerned, Vegeta blowing up tons of innocent people and risking the fate over the universe over a freakin' fight (that could have waited, all they had to do was team-up Dabora and Goku would still have had plenty of time to fight Vegeta afterwards before he had to go back) was a horrible case of character derailment and idiotic un-development respectively. The actual redemption was written well, everything before that made me wonder, "okay, Goku, there's a limit. Just go SSJ3 and snap this guy's neck already, people who kill innocent people like it's nothing are NOT SANE!" Yes, the Majin was on him, but as we saw, he didn't have to do a thing Babadi said as we found out, so.........yeah. Dragonballs don't matter, there's no guarantee you can always depend on them, and it doesn't automatically undo the emotional damage inflicted upon the survivors who may have lost family/friends in those blasts. (prepares for flaming) Anyway, the DB series SHOULD end at the Buu Saga given the themes built up, the problem is the Buu Saga takes a piss on those built-up themes (new generation taking over? Gotenks acts like the biggest brat ever even after his moms are killed, and Goku and Vegeta end up saving the day AGAIN at the end of the day. Super Saiyan legend? Oh, it's just a child's plaything now!). If Buu Saga had been written better, it would be a more fitting end to the series. |
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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Oh, I agree with all of your points. It was still nice, for me, to see Vegeta finally see the light. Sometimes you have to do something really horrific to see what you really are. Vegeta *tried* to make himself like he was before he met Goku. He tried with all his might to become the ruthless, uncaring SOB whose only value was strength. But he couldn't do it. Yeah, he did a lot of damage trying, and the things he did were horrible. But he *realized* that. Before he wouldn't have thought what he'd done was bad, but *now he did*.
And then he realized he couldn't beat Buu, so he tried to sacrifice himself as a means of atonement and to save someone other than himself. And, of course, at the end when he actuall begged the people of Earth to help. Yeah, things could've been done better. I didn't like Gotenks -- I didn't like any of the fusions, really. Most of the other plot lines were pretty poorly thoughtout, which made the Vegeta Redemption more circuitious than it should've been. I think one of the main things about the Buu Saga that annoyed me was Gohan, not Trunks/Goten. While his budding relationship with Videl was nice enough, everything else was pretty underwhelming to me: nearly all of the "comedy" aspects fell flat. Also the same could be said for *most*, but not all, of Mr. Satan's scenes. I understand what they were trying to do with the Mr. Satan characterization, but still... it just got old really quickly. So, yeah, for me, only the inclusion of the Vegeta Redemption makes the Buu Saga worth watching. The rest was "eh" at best to me. |
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SecretAgent94
Posts: 204 |
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@ doctordoom85
I'm not gonna lie; the Buu Saga did have some really epic moments. I remember the Birth of Vegeto. "Kakorot give it now!" "You bet!" "To the end of earth!!" ........... "ALRIGHT!!!" Unbelievable! A new page in Z-Fighter history has been turned!!) Haha I remember I was jumping up and down as a kid watching that. And when Vegeto turned Super Saiyan it was pretty much one of the most epic moments of my childhood. It was cool that he went only Super Saiyan 1, meaning SS1 still had some power in it; as opposed to if he went SS3. "You're WRONG Buu. I'm destined to destroy you" So awesome...Also what did Vegeto even mean by that? Was he really destined to win or something? I guess that flew right over my head; regardless it sounds so awesome Man watching that just reminds me; I'm really gonna miss the Falcouner music. I really doubt Kai will be able to outdo those scenes 
Still to get back on track; Vegeta's story of redemption was almost worth enduring all that other BS I suppose; but if it ended at Frieza, then it would have been the same, only Gohan would have been his adversary; not Goku; and it would have continued in maybe a sequel to DBZ? Hmm |
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Guardsman Bass
 Posts: 158 |
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Even if it's just a myth, I do think the series should have ended with the Frieza Arc (although I think it should have ended with Goku coming home in a "Well, I'm back" moment). Vegeta's death was epic, and Goku's Super-Saiyan transformation is one of my favorite clips in anime.
The Cell Saga had its good parts (Alternate-Trunks was a big part of that), but overall it cheapened the whole thing, and started up the whole idiotic "levels of Super Saiyan" crap. By the Buu Saga, it honestly seemed like Toriyama just didn't give a shit anymore. Buu is ridiculous, Super Saiyan transformations are a dime-a-dozen (even Vegeta comments on this in the anime), and the whole thing is just dragged out infernally long. |
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Kruszer
 Posts: 7995 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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I also disagree. Personally, I'm a large fan of the Cell Saga. It's the only part of the show I really wanted to own. It could have by all means ended after that though, the Buu Saga is terrible.
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8511 Location: Penguinopolis |
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The Cell arc is my favorite, so I'm glad it didn't end with Freeza.
Ugh, clips of the English dub. You're kidding me, right? And that Faulconer music is a bunch of generic guitar riffs and Casio garbage. Trust me, you're better off watching Kai. The English dub is an accurate representation of what the show is really about. And Yamamoto's score is a lot better. Though not as good as Shunsuke Kikuchi's original Japanese score for Z. |
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