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WARNING: SPOILERS!

I tore through the first three discs in the Claymore set. Where do I begin?

I have to admit, I went into this with pretty high expectations. Claymore has gotten exceptional praise since its release. Almost everybody has been referring to it as a quality show, one of the best action animes in a long while. The talk that sold me on it, though, was that it handled female warriors correctly.

At least that last part was right. Claymore features strong, fearsome female characters who make up the driving force of the plot. These characters, despite having an intimidating presence, have retained their femininity, and have done so without fanservice robbing them of their dignity. I have to commend the show for this, and I can only hope that this will become the new standard for how female combatants are handled in anime.

So why does every other aspect of Claymore have to be made of so much fail? To keep this short, I'll just run down a list of what I remember. There were tons of tiny problems popping up practically every other minute, and my memory is shot tonight. Here are some of the biggies:

1) Inconsistency
Wow, there are tons of these. So many that I couldn't keep track of them.

One of the more notable ones is when the top ranked claymores are dispatched to put down Teresa. While observing Priscilla and Teresa, Irene explains to her comrades that Teresa is at her most powerful when her opponents use their yoki. The only reason Priscilla is able to keep up with Teresa is because Priscilla doesn't rely on her yoki.

So when it's clear that Priscilla is outclassed and needs help, what do Irene and the other two claymores immediately do? Go into yoki rage, that's what! And Teresa hands them their butts, as expected. So what was the point of Irene's little briefing, other than exposition?

Which leads me to...

2) Endless exposition
Do these girls ever stop talking? No? Not even in the middle of combat? ESPECIALLY not in the middle of combat? And even the yoma politely wait for them to discuss battle tactics... at length?!

A symptom of this is the distorted sense of time. There seems to be no natural flow to the battles. A lethal projectile can be speeding towards someone's face, but there's enough time for somebody to rant for ten seconds before the projectile has to be dodged. Sadly, I'm not exaggerating (or if I am, it's a minor one).

3) Chosen One
I suppose this could have also been called 'cliched heroine'.

There were so many opportunities for Clare to be somewhat unique. When I first learned that she was ranked 47, I thought, "Hey, cool, an underdog lead character who'll have to rely more on her wits and working in a team, rather than some super neato technique or superior ability. You don't see that very often." Shortly afterwards, we're treated to Miria's comment... something to the effect of Clare's aura being the most powerful she's ever experienced or some crap. Whelp, there goes that.

Clare getting her arm chopped off was another one of those moments where I thought the show was going in a direction few shows dare to go. Sure, sure, at first I wasn't fooled. I was positive she would regenerate it or something. But then she spent an entire episode coping and training how to fight with one arm, and so I dared to hope that they wouldn't ruin the good thing they had going.

Well, I'm too tired to continue. Good night!

Eh...I don't know. I guess whether you call Claymore a disappointment depends on your expectations. Personally, I still moderately enjoyed Claymore.

I agree though. Claymore has some serious problems with exposition and ridiculous mid battle pauses and speeches. In general, it suffers from a lot of Shonen cliches. The weak lead with massive hidden potential, all that bollocks about power auras and rankings and stuff, the way everyone has their own little special technique. It's pretty cheesy without a doubt.

I also went in expecting a good series and was let down. I'm guessing the series was released among a bunch of crap, because this is the only reason I can explain the praise.

For me, I completely gave up on it when a one arm woman cut off her other arm and handed it to Clare.

I would have used spoilers for this people, but those who haven't seen it need to be aware what their $50+ is going to buy them.

Admittedly, there are some good scenes in the series, mostly before episode 12, but after that, it's a train wreck where the rest of the series is like watching rescue workers pull out mannequins because someone thought they were real people.

Some people actually like Shonen is the reason why it has praise. I don't understand any of you for example Smile

People thought this was good? Did everyone who ever praised this series forget to mention the "If you want to see the rest of the story, you'll have to read the rest of the manga" ending?

I'm just one of those people who can't possibly see the someone recommending a series that does that in good faith. Razz

especially on a financial perspective

Regarding the "inconsistancies" in the Teresa battle: Pricilla was losing, so the other Claymore's decided to attack at their strongest, hoping their numbers would overwhelm Teresa's powers, it just didn't work, and probably attacking without using their powers would've had even a slimmer chance of working.

Regarding the in-battle exposition: It's just one of those "things" and it's not unique to Claymore at all. You either mind it or you don't really

In the latter parts of the series (especially in the manga) the whole thing about power levels and rankings are more or less abolished

The vast minority of series based on manga complete the whole manga storyline. Your comment could be directed at a lot of other things.

im going to quote myself, from the "Top 10 bottom 5" thread

animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=11273&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=1410

Quote:

5. Claymore:
I have no idea why I like Claymore as much as I do. It has everything I hate from battle/fight animes. Those “special moves” each character has, the need to explain everything that’s happening at all times, tons of exposition during the fighting, The “ZOMG his/her power level has reached over 9000!!! THAT’S FISICALY IMPOSIBUL!!”

Yeah, Claymore has all that. Why is it in my TOP? I have no idea. For some reasons, I find some of the fights pretty cool. The Clare and Theresa characters are awesome and the story, while a little cliché and predictable, is very enjoyable.

Last edited by Key on Sun Nov 21, 2010 1:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

face in the windowpane wrote:

1) Inconsistency
Wow, there are tons of these. So many that I couldn't keep track of them.

One of the more notable ones is when the top ranked claymores are dispatched to put down Teresa. While observing Priscilla and Teresa, Irene explains to her comrades that Teresa is at her most powerful when her opponents use their yoki. The only reason Priscilla is able to keep up with Teresa is because Priscilla doesn't rely on her yoki.

So when it's clear that Priscilla is outclassed and needs help, what do Irene and the other two claymores immediately do? Go into yoki rage, that's what! And Teresa hands them their butts, as expected. So what was the point of Irene's little briefing, other than exposition?

I never found this to be an inconsistency, for one reason: Teresa's specialize ability to read yoki wouldn't get her anywhere if she didn't have superior basic fighting skill to back it up. She's #1 not only because she has immensely strong yoki power (which, sadly, we never get to see in full bloom) but also because she's the best pure fighter of all of the Claymores. I always assumed that Priscilla was only able to stay with her for a while in that initial confrontation because Teresa was caught off guard by Priscilla's ability to fight effectively while suppressing her yoki, so the battle turned against Priscilla when Teresa made the adjustment to not relying on her ability and just purely relying on skill. That made Irene realize that they couldn't beat Teresa on skill alone, so their only hope at that point was to overpower her.

Quote:

2) Endless exposition
Do these girls ever stop talking? No? Not even in the middle of combat? ESPECIALLY not in the middle of combat? And even the yoma politely wait for them to discuss battle tactics... at length?!

A symptom of this is the distorted sense of time. There seems to be no natural flow to the battles. A lethal projectile can be speeding towards someone's face, but there's enough time for somebody to rant for ten seconds before the projectile has to be dodged. Sadly, I'm not exaggerating (or if I am, it's a minor one).

Oh, I'll give you that this is the series' biggest weakness, but it's hardly one exclusive to this series; in fact, it's practically endemic to anime, manga, and American comic books.

Quote:

3) Chosen One
I suppose this could have also been called 'cliched heroine'.

There were so many opportunities for Clare to be somewhat unique. When I first learned that she was ranked 47, I thought, "Hey, cool, an underdog lead character who'll have to rely more on her wits and working in a team, rather than some super neato technique or superior ability. You don't see that very often." Shortly afterwards, we're treated to Miria's comment... something to the effect of Clare's aura being the most powerful she's ever experienced or some crap. Whelp, there goes that.

You haven't seen far enough into the series to understand what's going on there. Within the Claymore setting, Clare's situation [u]is[/i] unique. (Read the spoiler tag if you don't want to wait and find it out naturally.) spoiler[Unlike all other Claymores, who were empowered through having yoma flesh integrated into their bodies, Clare was empowered through having Teresa's flash - i.e. that of the most powerful Claymore ever - integrated into her body. Thus, she's only one-quarter yoma but still has some of Teresa's inherent ability, which makes her power level fluctuate widely.] Compared to other series, Clare's seeming ability to call upon deep reserves of power that she doesn't normally manifest is somewhat par for the course for shonen series. Her revenge scheme also isn't that unusual. However, what I always found interesting and special about Clare (and thus the series, and this is something emphasized more in the anime than the manga) was how much the story is about her struggle to keep her humanity intact despite what she's become, and that should become more apparent as the series progresses. I can't think of another anime hero or heroine who walks a finer liner on this.

Shenl742 wrote:

People thought this was good? Did everyone who ever praised this series forget to mention the "If you want to see the rest of the story, you'll have to read the rest of the manga" ending?

I hear this criticism a lot about the anime and don't buy it. The anime version is its own intact story. As I alluded to above, the anime slants things just enough to focus more on saving Clare from herself, and in that sense the anime complete. Is there a lot more that could be told? Sure, as things are left very open-ended at the end of the series. However, the crucial part of the story about getting Clare to live and appreciate living (rather than losing herself to her drive for revenge) does complete, and in a way that I found very satisfying.

The manga, OTOH, focuses more on the big picture of what's going on in the Claymore world and what underlies its foundations. Long periods of the manga past the point where the anime ends progress without Clare even being involved. (In fact, she's more an ensemble player than the central hero for at least the next five volumes past the anime.) If that's what you want then yes, read the manga instead.

=_______=;;

Thank you for ruining this for me... >:< I was sort of kind of looking forward to this one - it was in fact coming up next on my backlog.

It's all ruined now. >_>

John Casey wrote:

=_______=;;

Thank you for ruining this for me... >:< I was sort of kind of looking forward to this one - it was in fact coming up next on my backlog.

It's all ruined now. >_>

If you're not going to heed a notice on the first post that says "WARNING! SPOILERS!" about a series you're anticipating watching then I don't have any pity or sympathy for you.

Quote:

1) Inconsistency

Well on this you should clarify on who it was that hyped it up for you so much, was it reviewers and fans that may not have read the manga? I think anyone that read the manga and saw the anime prior to you should have relayed that this adaptation has notable changes and an off ending.

Quote:

2) Endless exposition

This is a battle manga and within that format new fights, moves, and backstory has to be filled in at sometime. The expose in Claymore due to being a short series never reaches a point for example like Bleach where the 300th transformation into Hollow Ichigo no longing needs explanation.

Of course there is a distorted sense of time. Time is independent of the story aside from 24, one episode of Batman TAS, an episode of Detective Conan, and some other shows trying to do a similar time twist.

Quote:

3) Chosen One
I suppose this could have also been called 'cliched heroine'.

Yes cliched, having cliches is not necessarily bad. Making a popular shonen manga/anime is about providing viewers enough familiar material so that it feels shonen and at the same time being able to make that world distinguishable from every other shonen.

In light of all the flaws Claymore(TV) is still ranked as very good for My Anime.

Shenl742 wrote:

People thought this was good? Did everyone who ever praised this series forget to mention the "If you want to see the rest of the story, you'll have to read the rest of the manga" ending?

Yeah, Claymore is hardly the first series to have a "read the Manga" ending, and the ending wasn't as bad as other series I could name.

However, that's no real excuse. On top of that, Claymore has a poor run of episodes at the end, topped off by Clare making a stupid, stupid choice. The whole point of the series was that to kill Yoma sacrifices must be made, especially with regards to humanity. And yet, right at the end spoiler[when Clare has the chance to kill Priscilla and save a lot of people, she selfishly chooses her own humanity over the lives of all the innocents that Priscilla will almost certainly take.]

So Key, I utterly disagree with your opinion of the ending. The series went against its own message, and that kills the ending far more than the way the series had no real conclusion.

Quote:

I hear this criticism a lot about the anime and don't buy it. The anime version is its own intact story. As I alluded to above, the anime slants things just enough to focus more on saving Clare from herself, and in that sense the anime complete. Is there a lot more that could be told? Sure, as things are left very open-ended at the end of the series. However, the crucial part of the story about getting Clare to live and appreciate living (rather than losing herself to her drive for revenge) does complete, and in a way that I found very satisfying.

The manga, OTOH, focuses more on the big picture of what's going on in the Claymore world and what underlies its foundations. Long periods of the manga past the point where the anime ends progress without Clare even being involved. (In fact, she's more an ensemble player than the central hero for at least the next five volumes past the anime.) If that's what you want then yes, read the manga instead.

I can certainly undersant that, but I've just been burned so many times by this issue in anime that I find it very difficult to forgive, especially when I know that the story goes onward from that point, which tends to make any feelings I have for these cut-off endings which may never be concluded feel "tainted". I think the only times I've been able to get over it with Giant Robo and Twelve Kingdoms

And although I understand what you're saying about Claire finding herself and all that, but the TVs series still ends with:

1-Pricilla and the Abyssal lords still alive
2-The Organization is still around, churning out monsters and gunning on killing Claire and her companions (which was more or less the point of the Northern Campaign, to get rid of the "trouble maker" Claymores and maybe cause a bit of a dent in Iseley's forces).

The way I look at it (and let me emphasize, the way I look at it), even though Claire's found piece of mind, unless she keeps fighting and gets stronger humanity is screwed, at least in the anime continuity since we'll never see what takes place after

Key wrote:

John Casey wrote:

=_______=;;

Thank you for ruining this for me... >:< I was sort of kind of looking forward to this one - it was in fact coming up next on my backlog.

It's all ruined now. >_>

If you're not going to heed a notice on the first post that says "WARNING! SPOILERS!" about a series you're anticipating watching then I don't have any pity or sympathy for you.

Oh, no, I didn't read the spoilers lol. It's just, everyone's all up in arms about it. Like, like it's the coming of the bubonic plague. My anticipation is now all jinxed.

Shenl742 wrote:

And although I understand what you're saying about Claire finding herself and all that, but the TVs series still ends with:

1-Pricilla and the Abyssal lords still alive
2-The Organization is still around, churning out monsters and gunning on killing Claire and her companions (which was more or less the point of the Northern Campaign, to get rid of the "trouble maker" Claymores and maybe cause a bit of a dent in Iseley's forces).

Most of Iseley's force was utterly destroyed, like nearly 3/4 of it was gone. His #1 Lieutenant Rigaldo was killed. Priscilla was defeated and left in a very fragile state. Iseley even retreated saying that he'll have to start up again later. That is an irrefutable defeat. The other Abyssal Lords didn't pose nearly as much of an immediate threat as Iseley, so he was the main threat that needed to be dealt with, and was.

As for the Organization, it would have been a pretty big mess if they tried to bring about it's destruction or revolution in the amount of time they had. But they still showed us their true colors, and the Claymores found out, too, and now they were going rogue and will aim to expose the Org. It was like the end of the 1st Matrix movie (AKA: the only one that should have existed); you don't see the bigger story unfold, but you know what's going to happen afterwords.

With all of the hate I read about the anime's ending, I was actually disappointed that it wasn't bad at all Razz

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