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Brain Diving - Schodt Through The Heart




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JediMom



Joined: 17 Apr 2010
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:37 pm Reply with quote
One thing that I find frustrating about reviews of manga tankobon is when the reviewer fails to remember that the tankobon is part of a larger, unfinished body of work. I have seen reviews of one tankobon volume of Kuroshitsuji that complained about slow pacing or lack of info about supporting characters, & these deficits led the reviewer to give the series a bad review, as though just the one book represented the whole of the work. As a fan of the series, I understand that each manga represents a few chapters of a longer work, which has a whole different pacing than what you'd find in a one-book story. These "deficits" in pacing are no longer deficits when the mangaka finally gives us the big reveal we've been waiting for... I wish some of these reviewers would read Mr. Schodt's books! I certainly plan to, so thanks for presenting them!
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ABCBTom



Joined: 10 Sep 2009
Posts: 183
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 4:38 pm Reply with quote
I know I've certainly cited both of these books in my recent work on shounen manga. What's interesting is that Manga! Manga!, due to its age, presents a very different picture of manga than how we know it now, in that it comes from a pre-Fist of the North Star, pre-Dragonball, pre-Sailor Moon period. Interesting to see what's changed, and what's remained the same.

At the recent conference, two of the presenters on manga took issue with Schodt in how he was trying to "sell" or "present" manga to the American audience. The specific criticism was he, and others since, have been "othering" manga to make it new and exciting-sounding, which fit in nicely with some Nihonjinron scholars of manga, who speak about how the Japanese brain is "uniquely designed" to respond to both pictures and language in a black and white format. The overall argument was that manga should be treated as part of a greater library of graphic literature, rather than some unique phenomenon.

Of course, after the nationalist nonsense and Orientalism had been slain, we received questions from the audience about why the eyes were so big and why Japanese comics were so weird.

Will the circle be unbroken, by and by, by and by?
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Wooga



Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 916
Location: Tucson
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 6:48 pm Reply with quote
I used Dreamland Japan in my presentation on manga for school, it made up the bulk of my references. The library also had bilingual editions of Bakabon, Akko-chan's got a secret and geGeGe no Kitaro, so that was helpful too.
Now, I've been trying to find both the Astro Boy essays and the Gundam novel that Schodt translated. I both heard about these in Animerica and I STILL haven't got around to reading them... shows how lazy I am.
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FanFicGuru



Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 159
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:45 pm Reply with quote
I used Manga! Manga! as one of my sources a few months ago while working on a grad paper applying Auerbach's theories of the development and categorization of western literature to Manga. It was incredibly insightful, informative and well-written.

It's definitely a must have for any anime fan, or any serious student of contemporary Japanese studies.
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Kitsune-chan



Joined: 01 Sep 2010
Posts: 5
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 7:51 pm Reply with quote
Frederick Schodt's works are without a doubt the best on manga in the English language. I have referenced them countless times over the years.

Another work that needs mentioning if we're going to discuss the foundational works of the study of manga. And that's Scott McCloud's Understanding Comics. He breaks down the entire medium of comics, giving even the experienced comic reader an in depth understanding of the workings of the media. He also walks the reader through the challenge of defining the medium of comics. His work on what comics are and how they work is foundational in all comic studies, and provides a medium specific backdrop in contrast to Schodt's focus on the process of producing and the themes on which manga is written.

While his focus is not specifically on manga, he mentions manga and their style and techniques multiple times throughout the work, and his analysis is not cursory or overly generalizing as many works that merely touch on manga tend to be. Instead, he identifies techniques used in manga not normally seen in Western comics, and demonstrates how they work. All of this is made possible largely through McCloud's decision to write the book as a comic.
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Parsifal24





PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:20 pm Reply with quote
I liked Manga Manga i found the chapter on the manga industry really interesting and the history of Japanese visual art was informative. But I couldn't agree with his assertion certain characters are "White" or that the character design betrays some sort of desire in the Japanese to be "different" form what they actually look like but maybe that's because I read Mat Thron's The Face of the Other. I also found dreamland japan informitive but parts of it are almost anachronistic now.
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vashfanatic



Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 3495
Location: Back stateside
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:07 pm Reply with quote
JediMom wrote:
One thing that I find frustrating about reviews of manga tankobon is when the reviewer fails to remember that the tankobon is part of a larger, unfinished body of work. I have seen reviews of one tankobon volume of Kuroshitsuji that complained about slow pacing or lack of info about supporting characters, & these deficits led the reviewer to give the series a bad review, as though just the one book represented the whole of the work. As a fan of the series, I understand that each manga represents a few chapters of a longer work, which has a whole different pacing than what you'd find in a one-book story. These "deficits" in pacing are no longer deficits when the mangaka finally gives us the big reveal we've been waiting for... I wish some of these reviewers would read Mr. Schodt's books! I certainly plan to, so thanks for presenting them!

Any review is a review of that volume. I've yet to read one at this site that tried to judge the entire series by a volume. Okay, well, some have written off a series if the first volume was absolutely abysmal, but otherwise expect to see reviews of each volume that's sent to be reviewed. If one volume is slow paced, then it gets a lower grade, but that doesn't reflect the whole series. A rating of one volume can be higher or lower than the rating of another. A complete manga series rarely ever gets one review.

I think you're totally misinterpreting how these reviews work. Or else you're not talking about this site.
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Wooga



Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 916
Location: Tucson
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 7:13 pm Reply with quote
I second the nod towards Scott Mccloud- its great how he illustrates how most people need to seperate FORM from CONTENT. Some people still seem to think 'comics' means a genre when this is notthe case. Comics are just another form of storytelling.
All in all, its a great book that opened up my eyes to art in general. I think everyone who likes comics should read it- (just skip his second book)
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doc-watson42
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Posts: 1709
PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 9:44 pm Reply with quote
Brian Ruh wrote:
The book also contains a translation of part of Riyoko Ikeda's The Rose of Versailles; although there are a couple of hard-to-find volumes of the manga that were translated into English in the 1980s, Manga! Manga! is still the easiest way to at least get a taste of this historically important manga.

The Rose of Versailles volumes were also translated by Mr. Schodt. Very Happy

Wooga wrote:
Now, I've been trying to find both the Astro Boy essays and the Gundam novel that Schodt translated. I both heard about these in Animerica and I STILL haven't got around to reading them... shows how lazy I am.

The information on the Gundam novels is here (at WorldCat: vol. 1, vol. 2, vol. 3, and the collection), and on The Astro Boy Essays is here (WorldCat). If you want to buy them, I recommend BookFinder.com (the reasons).
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ridiculus



Joined: 16 Jul 2010
Posts: 72
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:34 am Reply with quote
Kitsune-chan wrote:

Another work that needs mentioning if we're going to discuss the foundational works of the study of manga. And that's Scott McCloud's Understanding Comics. He breaks down the entire medium of comics, giving even the experienced comic reader an in depth understanding of the workings of the media. He also walks the reader through the challenge of defining the medium of comics. His work on what comics are and how they work is foundational in all comic studies, and provides a medium specific backdrop in contrast to Schodt's focus on the process of producing and the themes on which manga is written.

While his focus is not specifically on manga, he mentions manga and their style and techniques multiple times throughout the work, and his analysis is not cursory or overly generalizing as many works that merely touch on manga tend to be. Instead, he identifies techniques used in manga not normally seen in Western comics, and demonstrates how they work. All of this is made possible largely through McCloud's decision to write the book as a comic.


Though I appriciate McCloud's work, I think it is not especially insightful regarding manga. McCloud's examples are too random and too few to have statistic validity. And why so much fuss about 'sequentiality'? There are other possibilities for the panels to follow. But he must be commended based on his attitude and goal - that is, the unity of the world's different visual-storytelling traditions under one theoretical umbrella. It is a great handicap for the English-speaking crowd that Natsume and Takekuma's (and others') Manga no yomikata and Go Ito's Tezuka Is Dead have not been translated into English.

And Schodt is a great... well, maybe 'scholar' is not the best word. Great teacher. And cool guy, too. I know that I owe him very much.
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