Forum - View topicBig West's US copyright for Macross
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skullone
Posts: 104 Location: Greece |
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No matter what Harmony Gold says, Big West and Studio Nue HAVE registered the designs in Macross as their own in the USA.
I copy/paste from the search I did at http://www.copyright.gov/records/ Registration Number: VAu-534-107 Title: Macross. Description: Drawings. Claimant: acKabushiki Kaisha Studio Nue & Kabushiki Kaisha Big West Created: 1982 Registered: 17May02 Author on © Application: artwork: Kabushiki Kaisha Studio Nue, employer for hire. Special Codes: 5/S On the page you'll see, go to the "Books, music, films, sound recordings, maps, software, photos, art, and multimedia. Also includes renewals." tab, then enter "Macross" and select the "Macross (3 items)" entry. The last one to the bottom of the page is the newest one. The date is May 17, 2002. These copyrights, obviously, concern the designs shown at Big West's official web site, in the announcement linked at the main page. I give it to you here: http://www.macross.co.jp/contents/index.html And, of course, the main official Macross web site is http://www.macross.co.jp/ So, enough with Harmony Gold's trolls going all over the anime forums saying "Big West only has copyrights in Japan, Harmony Gold owns all, you'll all see the light" and all this bruhaha. I may be harsh, but on Macross World, there are a few extremely and outrageously vocal trolls who keep defying logic, trademark and copyright law and have worn out their welcome by reciting the same old (and completely unfounded) stuff that Tommy Yune said during the Robotech Panel at Anime Expo. In the meantime, and this is CONFIRMED (so, I guess you people should start listening more to MW's sources and less to HG's cronies), HG sent the same C&D letter it had sent to Blasto! Toys and Valkyrie Exchange... This time, they sent it to Sunwards, which is exclusively licensed by Big West to distribute the line of 1/60 VF-1 Valkyrie toys manufactured by Yamato Toys. This, of course, is a desperate act, because the 1/60 Yamatos are far better than the atrocious Toynami 1/55 "Master Piece Collection" Veritech toys (which are basically an enlarged UNLICENSED copy - aren't such copies called bootlegs, by the way? - of the Bandai 1/72 High Complete Model VF-1). Of course, now that the 1/48 VF-1 toy will come from Yamato, you can expect the ridiculously overpriced MPC to get a serious run for its money. Expect more news regarding this turmoil from Monday on. Graham Parkes of Macross World (and please, enough of this "MW is biased" talk, because it is proven everyday as being entirely unfounded) will bring us more information directly from Sunwards. |
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Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10463 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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Confirmed? Source? |
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skullone
Posts: 104 Location: Greece |
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http://www.macrossworld.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?s=3d47fe2d06a6ffff;act=ST;f=8;t=3580
Graham sometimes sounds like Yoda, but he gets the message across. If you check out Sunwards' website (http://www.sunwards.jp), you'll see that, although it used to be utterly functional for some time and they even had a full-page ad in ToyFare (sp?), the site is now "Under Construction". Of course, some RT.com trolls have rushed to celebrate. But the recent REGISTERED copyright information proves their "point" moot. |
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GATSU
Posts: 15597 |
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Skull: Until Big West makes any official statements on Macross-other than merchandise-Harmony Gold has the rights to the franchise, whether you like it or not. And regardless of how you feel about their injunctions, they were the reason we were able to first see Macross through Robotech in the 80's, and they're the reason we're able to see the original Macross, Southern Cross and Mospeada now. I think most fans would rather know they can't buy imported Valkyries than hear an announcement from Animeigo cancelling Macross cus they can no longer afford the dvd rights.
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nagash
Posts: 280 |
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Gastu has a point. I'd rather take the anime over the toy lines if given a choice.
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Tempest
I Run this place. ANN Publisher Posts: 10463 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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Thanks for the link, but I still don't see a confirmation. A confirmation would be a statement by an official of Sunwards or Harmony Gold to the effect that such a letter was sent out and received. Without that it is unconfirmed. |
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skullone
Posts: 104 Location: Greece |
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You're missing the point. Harmony Gold claims ownership of the character and mecha designs, which has been confirmed as Big West/Studio Nue's belonging by the Tokyo District Court ruling.
According to this ruling, Tatsunoko had distribution rights and that's all it could sell to HG. In SIMPLE words, you CAN'T sell more than you have. Period. So, yes, HG owns the footage and the "dub" it did, big deal. It does NOT (at least exclusively) own the designs in the footage, though. This means that, although HG has EVERY right to create merchandise based on Macross' designs, they don't have ANY right to block Hasegawa's models, Yamato's and Bandai's toys (ESPECIALLY after their licensee Toynami, under HG's permission and blessing, bootlegged - i.e. WITHOUT license; why did Tommy Yune conveniently try to tell the people who pointed out that the MPC is a bootleg of the HCM at the RT Panel during Anime Expo that "it wasn't released in the States, so we can copy it without a license"? - Bandai's HCM) or an officially licensed by Big West release of Macross or Macross Plus or Macross 7 or Macross II or, now, Macross Zero. Do you believe, for ONE second, Tommy Yune's claims at the RT Panel that "when Macross Plus and Macross II came out by Manga, no one was minding the shop (HG), so we were caught off-guard"? That's a LIE. There WAS someone minding the shop well enough to collect the royalties from the various releases of Robotech, the comics and the RPGs. Besides, if NO ONE was minding the shop, according to mr. Yune, how come some people were working on the Robotech: Crystal Dreams and Robotech 3000 fiascos? Of course, what do I know, I'm just a Lying Macross Purist, while HG knows everything... And, at long last, someone who has nothing to fear and nothing to hide, when he/she is called to present proof of what he/she says has no problem to present it. So far, HG has only been saying "we have this ultra top-secret contract and memorandum that you can't see, but proves we own everything Macross under the sun. But, again, we won't give you ANY proof, you'll just have to take our word for it". I don't know about you, but I prefer to go with EVIDENCE and NOT take ANYONE'S word for it. You see, I've been duped a few times and, ever since, any time I hear the "you'll have to take my word for it" line, my BS detector immediately starts ringing like an alarm clock gone berserk. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but, when you create something, even if you haven' registered it yet, it IS your intellectual property and you can go after anyone who plagiarises it. By the way, for the transcript of what was said and done at the Robotech Panel at Anime Expo 2002, go here: http://www.macrossworld.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?s=3d48d5584a4affff;act=ST;f=17;t=2336 Anyone who's not exactly willing to believe everything they hear, just because it was said by a company's representative, won't really be able to "take Tommy Yune's word for it". And, back to the "no one was minding the shop back then" claim. Heck, the Macross 7 Trash manga was released in France and HG did NOTHING to stop it. And, allegedly, they tried to stop Manga from releasing Macross Plus and II, but failed. It was not until after Macross' 15th anniversary (1997) that HG decided that they should cash in on Macross. So, this refutes the claim that Macross exists outside Japan thanks to Robotech. And coming to the "Macross was less than 65 episodes, so it couldn't get syndicated" claim, which is Carl Macek's excuse for hacking Macross, Southern Cross and Mospeada into Robotech (sorry, but reading the Robotech timeline and storyline, as well as watching it now that I'm 25 and more demanding as a spectator, is a major pain due to the overused cliché music, the sub-par voice acting and the many plot holes), I have one title to mention: "Thunderbirds 2086" (Techno Voyager). Syndicated, shown on an everyday basis (there is a link somewhere, I'll find it later this week) and it had far less than 65 episodes. Besides, why would anyone with a decent TV series want to have it syndicated? Syndication is for stuff like soap operas. And, by the way, does anyone remember Carl Macek's interview in the "Codename Robotech" DVD as well as his Akadot interview in 2001, in which interviews he claimed that Macross was a flop in Japan and HE came in and made it big, this is BS and nothing else. He also claimed that he was ASSISTED by the Japanese staff and that he "improved" the series. So much for Carl Macek's credibility. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't he the one who gave us the horrible "Captain Harlock and The Queen of Thousand Years"? That's all for today. More information and news will come later. |
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GATSU
Posts: 15597 |
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"And coming to the "Macross was less than 65 episodes, so it couldn't get syndicated" claim, which is Carl Macek's excuse for hacking Macross, Southern Cross and Mospeada into Robotech"
He did what he had to do to sell the Japanese series. If it wasn't for him, Macross would've never come out here at all, or it would've been far more butchered than it ended up being. Hell, I'm surprised he got away with what he did. I mean, Yellow Dancer dresses in drag, but when one of Team Rocket does the same, they take that episode out. "(sorry, but reading the Robotech timeline and storyline, as well as watching it now that I'm 25 and more demanding as a spectator, is a major pain due to the overused cliché music, the sub-par voice acting and the many plot holes)," A lot of people grew up on Robotech, and not the other 3 shows, so stop acting like Robotech is beneath you, just because it's not the way you would've wanted to see those shows. Like it or not, Robotech on dvd's been doing good business for ADV, and many fans have eagerly been awaiting the upcoming multi-platform Battlecry game. Sometimes, editing and putting dub-only versions of anime can be a good thing, because it can get people interested in the original versions. I know it hasn't killed Animeigo's sales. "I have one title to mention: "Thunderbirds 2086" (Techno Voyager). Syndicated, shown on an everyday basis (there is a link somewhere, I'll find it later this week) and it had far less than 65 episodes." Less toys to market perhaps? "Besides, why would anyone with a decent TV series want to have it syndicated? Syndication is for stuff like soap operas." Because the content would've been too much to get away with on a regular network? "And, by the way, does anyone remember Carl Macek's interview in the "Codename Robotech" DVD as well as his Akadot interview in 2001, in which interviews he claimed that Macross was a flop in Japan and HE came in and made it big, this is BS and nothing else. He also claimed that he was ASSISTED by the Japanese staff and that he "improved" the series." It's possible. Back then, Macross would've been a tougher sell than it is today, what with were (then) new staff(besides Noburo Ishiguro, who barely survived Yamato's initial failure). "So much for Carl Macek's credibility. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't he the one who gave us the horrible "Captain Harlock and The Queen of Thousand Years"?" He also introduced us to Akira, Vampire Hunter D, and Lupin. I think that more than makes up for it. |
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nagash
Posts: 280 |
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Skullone, you obviosly do not like Robotech. Fine. That's your opinion and you are entitled to it. For the rest of us that grew up with it, it has different meaning. You got to see both Macross and Robotech when they came out. America did not.
I think it took 6 months for the news to break in my area that there was a Japanese version of the Macross series. It took much longer for the Masters and Mospeada. The version I found out about wasn't even the full version of Macross but it was Do You Believe In Love. It was great. For most of us, once we found out about Macross, we went looking for it, and what do you know, we now have open access to it. I love both series, and remember, I do consider them to be two different series. They are not the same. I enjoy both on their own terms. You're complaining mostly about the models or figures. Frankly, I don't see what the problem is as I can find them. They are the Japanese versions and I can find them right here in the US. You'd be surprised where you can find them as a lot of stores that are into models but not anime don't even know what they got their hands on. It's out there but you will have to look to find it. You, apparently, want it in your corner store. I don't see any problems with that. Eventually it may happen. Like all things in this country, however, if you want something that isn't high on the popularety list, you have to wait for it. I waited almost 20 years to get open access to Macross on video. I can wait a little more for the figures. As for the legal problems, let the courts handle them. We're not lawyers so what's the point of arguing? BW has a tough fight over here; they have to prove that HG knowingly bout bad rights. Furthermore, they waited forever and a day to file this and any court they go into will pick up on that. If BW wants to contest HG, they have to do it here in court. Let them fight it out. It's nobody's place outside of them say who's right or wrong. If HG did what you say they did then let BW tell it in court. All that anyone does by brining it up in here is cause an argument and quite simply, I am getting tired of seeing this one come up. I sided with you on some things in the Robotech forums but enough is enough. Let the companies fight it out. |
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skullone
Posts: 104 Location: Greece |
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Let me point out a few things real quick:
1. It's "Do You Remember Love?" 2. While it is true that Robotech is what we saw first, had there not been DYRL in circulation at the same time (and there WAS someone minding HG's shoppe at that time), it is likely that no one would have had access to the real thing. 3. Nostalgia and suspension of disbelief are the main excuses for many atrocities in the industry to be fondly remembered. Take the VW Beetle, for instance, which was a car with horrible handling, or the petrifyingly dangerous Triumph Herald. We must not be afraid of saying "ok, it was a nice blast back then, but now it doesn't cut it". 4. The complaint regards HG's claim that it owns ALL THINGS MACROSS: designs, characters, derivative productions (here, they contradict all business and legal practice in the showbiz), just as if THEY created the show. 5. In fact, there WAS, sometime, a claim going around that it was HG and Carl Macek created Macross. My point is: 1. Give credit where it's due. 2. Don't claim you have more than you actually have. 3. Don't rip people off. And HG has long deprived itself of all the ability to claim it acted in "good faith". |
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GATSU
Posts: 15597 |
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"2. While it is true that Robotech is what we saw first, had there not been DYRL in circulation at the same time (and there WAS someone minding HG's shoppe at that time), it is likely that no one would have had access to the real thing."
What are you talking about? If you wanted access to the real thing, you'd go to Japan and see it on video. The only thing we had of DYRL was that crappy Clash of the Bionoids dub, which was done byu a different studio, in order to help Japanese kids learn English. "Nostalgia and suspension of disbelief are the main excuses for many atrocities in the industry to be fondly remembered. Take the VW Beetle, for instance, which was a car with horrible handling, or the petrifyingly dangerous Triumph Herald. We must not be afraid of saying "ok, it was a nice blast back then, but now it doesn't cut it". Then by that logic, the original Macross would be stupid too, because it's so out-dated. You can't have it both ways. "The complaint regards HG's claim that it owns ALL THINGS MACROSS: designs, characters, derivative productions (here, they contradict all business and legal practice in the showbiz), just as if THEY created the show." We've heard you numerous times on the subject. If Macross is all you can talk about, then maybe you should bother Harmony Gold, and not us. "Give credit where it's due." Then give Macek credit for helping establish an interest in Macross. "Don't claim you have more than you actually have." Don't claim you have more info than you have. ^_- "Don't rip people off." I think the price for Macross is fair. (At least for now.) |
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nagash
Posts: 280 |
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'HG owns all things Macross'
As stated before, HG bought the rights. By doing so they do own the rights to it in this country. In a sense, they do own all things Macross in this country. You want to challenge that, you tell BW to get up here and take them to court. Until they do, your entire arguement is pointless because nobody can stop HG from exercising their ownership of the rights. When I went looking for Macross when I found out about it I had to look far and wide. I found DYRL and over time have found more and more. I can pick up the models you refer to anytime I want. If anything, I'd say HG was doing a very lousy job of protecting their rights, but that's to your advantage, so why are you complaining about it? When discussing any other anime that's out now the same thing comes up. An American company buys the distribution rights to an anime. They therefore own the anime for the country they are distributing it in. They can therefore change it any way they want. Fortunately, most companies put out both edited and unedited versions of the anime. That is all we can ask. We now have the original Macross in stores. That, in itself, is a huge accomplishment. If BW wants to get more access into this country then let them file that lawsuit. They have to prove it in American court, not Japan. Until then, I say again, let the lawyers handle it. |
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skullone
Posts: 104 Location: Greece |
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Not quite. While Clash Of The Bionoids was, indeed, horrible, there was also "The Super Space Fortress Macross", which certainly had the same lousy dub - but hey, lousy dubs are ubiquitous and you can see them even to this day - , but at least was complete. There were other dubs of DYRL in South American and Europe, in Spanish, Greek, Italian and French. I have watched the Greek dub and it was so-so.
Unfortunately, your point does not stand that well. You see, Robotech was tolerable only by minors - not so with Macross or Captain Harlock or Maison Ikkoku or My Neighbor Totoro. The fact that something is old does not detract from its value; that way, we'd say that Goya's "The Nude Maya" would be stupid or that Michelangelo's works are lousy. The quality of the work is what makes or mars one's opinion.
1. Harmony Gold doesn't care to listen 2. Macross and Captain Harlock is all I know about - I'm not such a huge fan of anime and here, anime-dedicated outlets are practically non-existent. You can get anime only through comic stores or as dubs in videostores.
Please.
I just give whatever info I have.
Could be better and with less 'tude towards the Macross fandom. |
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nagash
Posts: 280 |
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'You can only get anime through comic book stores or dubbed at video stores'
Huh? What planet are you on? There's the net, there's specialty shops all over the country, mail order, direct-from-the-company, you can rent them from anime clubs...... They're all over the place! |
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ANN_Bamboo
ANN Contributor
 Posts: 3904 Location: CO |
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While I'm glad you've been able to track down other versions of DYRL, it is my experience that Greek dubs of anime were slightly hard for the average Robotech viewer to obtain back in the day. As for you argument that a lousy dub is okay as long as everything is there, I would argue that Robotech was fine, even though the three series were hacked to pieces and badly dubbed, because hey, at least there was anime in the United States. Now, I'm not a huge Robotech fan myself, but I still try to be fair when recognizing that it was indeed responsible for bringing up almost an entire generation of anime fans. (Please, don't argue the nostalgia debate. I wouldn't use that as a base for my comment, as I agree, nostalgia doesn't count for much. Hell, nostalgia or not, I never liked Akira that much.)
My goodness, where the hell do you live? Madagascar? Anime is available on bilingual DVD everywhere from Best Buy to Wal-Mart. You could live in some place like Kansas, and you'd still be able to find anime. It's hard to find import CDs and even harder to find import scrolls in a physical store in the US, but subbed anime? Damn, maybe if you spent more time outside instead of online copying and pasting what other people have said on Macross World about it, you'd find a lot more anime near where you live.
With all due respect, I think the fact that AnimEigo even bothered to released it on subbed DVD shows that they do indeed care about the Macross fanbase. Considering how small AnimEigo is, and how mush less capital they have than say, ADV or Bandai, I'd say the price is very accessible and reasonable. Ask yourself this question: would you rather have Macross released by AnimEigo, or Tokyopop, heaven forbid? Or no one at all? |
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