Forum - View topicSelfmadehero-Manga Shakespeare, really manga?
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Time and Space
Posts: 167 Location: China |
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Selfmadehero seem to harbour quite an admirable dream:
Alas, this manga is created originally in the UK, so it may not be considered to be "real" manga according to certain fans, and they may be right. I was just wondering how many people would actually consider purchasing such a manga? and who would have qualms considering it isn't strictly Japanese and uses Shakespeare's own language? I haven't been able to bye myself a copy of either as of yet so also wanted to know: how is it? If anyone has been lucky enough to get their hands on it (hopefully it isn't so atypical and unusual as I seem to think it is, so that someone has actually made contact with it) Personally, I hold ambivalent views as to whether a comic, no matter what its style, created outside of Japan may call itself manga. Part of me reasons that if the style is the same as that of Japanese comics, then there is no reason why it may not declare itself manga, but then, I like to hold the opinion that manga is strictly culturally unique to Japan, I also hold a probable bias that manga produced in it's place of origin cannot be surpassed by "manga" produced outside Japan, so calling a non-Japanese comic manga degrades manga itself as a whole. Of course, this point seems quite irrational, but I can't help it. Concerning the use of Shakespeare's original text: I don't have a problem with and would likely enjoy it greatly. I think this "Manga Shakespeare" is a great idea, and would likely sample it even if I felt it wasn't strictly manga. |
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marie-antoinette
 Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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Oh god, do we really need another "is it manga" debates?
Go check out the OEL jumping the shark thread if you want to read opinions about that. |
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jgreen
 Posts: 1325 Location: St. Louis, MO |
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Yeah, check the other thread for the "is it manga?" debate. But personally, I find manga and Shakespeare to be a very odd fit, but I'd certainly be willing to give it a gander at least. Lord knows I loved the storyline in Ranma 1/2 where Akane played Juliet to about 50 different Romeos.
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Treetastic
 Posts: 164 Location: Canada |
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Would they really use Shakespeare's own wording? The whole reason he used that sort of language was that that was the way everybody spoke back then. I don't think doing futuritic updates of his stories- especially if they're supposed to be set in Japan- would benefit from using the original speech.
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Not a Jellyfish
 Posts: 539 Location: Boston, MA |
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I think I would actually be more bothered if they DIDN'T use original Shakespearian English. Yes, that is how everyone spoke. But the reason why we still read it that way today is because, if it weren't the original way he wrote it, we would lose all of the syntax, all of the poetry. Sonnets would no longer be sonnets because the wording would be off. Not only that, it's authentic. It's the same as wanting to keep honorifics in manga. We keep Shakespeare in Elizabethan English, because otherwise, things would be "lost in translation." Also, the intent is for Shakespeare to reach audiences who may not have been willing to read his work in book form. But this way it reaches an audience who can still partake in the true work, within a slightly different medium. Although, these books are in the children's section of the bookstore I work at. So I can't be sure what the target audience is. When I first saw them, I kind of laughed, but I might give them another chance if they are good. |
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Treetastic
Posts: 164 Location: Canada |
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I have no problem with them using Shakespearian English if the stories are set in Shakespeare's time. But people in the future will not be using Shakepearian English as far as I know, and from the description these sound like they are only loosely based on Shakespeare. I highly doubt that people in Tokyo have names like Juliet Capulet or Benvolio. They can't really be using Shakepeare's original texts- the story takes place in Verona. If they use the exact text, it will be a mess. |
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jgreen
Posts: 1325 Location: St. Louis, MO |
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Shakespeare's works can be adapted to fit modern times, too, without losing their meaning. What about 10 Things I Hate About You, Romeo + Juliet, or O?
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marie-antoinette
Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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While the stories are certainly adaptable, I do agree that unless the language is kept intact a fair amount of what makes Shakespeare so great is lost.
Anyone could write the stories he wrote (and in fact, since only two of his plays are completely original works, other people have written them). Not anyone could write them how he did however, which is why it's Romeo and Juliet who are most widely remembered, not Pyramus and Thisbe. |
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Not a Jellyfish
Posts: 539 Location: Boston, MA |
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If they don't use the original text, then it's not Shakespeare. It's just some story about star-crossed lovers that resembles Romeo and Juliet. It's the same reason why Baz Luhrmann kept the Elizabethan in tact in his version of the play, even though he gave the movie a pseudo-modern feel. It's just not Shakespeare. 10 Things I Hate About You and Kiss Me, Kate may both be based on The Taming of the Shrew, however, they are not considered Shakespeare because they do not use his words. And aren't the names not being Japanese besides the point? I'm sure there are Japanese people who use foreign names. And isn't "that which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet"? Do the names really matter? If you change the names, and take out the original text, it's not even CLOSE to Shakespeare any more. Then what's the point? |
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Treetastic
Posts: 164 Location: Canada |
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Oh dear... I'm not making my ideas clear enough, am I? I realize it would not be Shakespeare if you change the dialogue. But does that make changing the plot better? In examples I have seen, it doesn't. This is my opinion, nothing more.
I'll bring up the example of adaptation that I am thinking of: I once went to see a modern adaptation of Shakespeare. It sounded like a good idea: use all of Shakespeare's dialogue, but dress the characters in modern clothes. Helena, Hermia, Lysander and Demetrius were office workers, the faeries were all rockers, the hack actors were construction workers. There was a short narration about the update at the beginning, talking about how Hermia's father's corporation is going under, and so she needs to get married to Demetrius (and his company). The problem? None of this was in Shakespeare. There is no mention of big buisness anywhere in the play, of course, so the costumes ended up detracting from the original story. I love Shakespeare. But if you're going to set his stories in a different place and time, under different circumstances, while still keeping all the dialogue, nobody will be talking about the places or times they are supposedly living in, rendering the location change pointless. And if you change all the dialogue so that the initial information and the story content make sense, then it is no longer Shakespeare. Here's an idea: do a manga using Shakespeare's words that is set in Shakespeare's time. Kids/teens/students aren't stupid; I'm sure that anyone with an interest in Shakespeare understands concepts like love, death, and irony. The only problem any of my classmates have had is understanding the antiquated language, a problem that is removed when they see it acted (or, in this case, drawn). Speaking as a fourteen year old, I would say that Shakespeare's work, as read from a textbook, is much easier to understand than any modern adaptation usng aforementioned language. All I'm saying is that I don't think this will work very well. Nothing against the particular choices of setting or words; perhaps I'm slightly biased towards classic Shakespeare, but if it ain't broke, don't fix it. They have never worked in my experience. That's it. I don't know yet, these manga could be brilliant. "...a rose by any other name would smell as sweet" may be true- so if it was bad on stage, what would make it better in print? |
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