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NEWS: Palworld Developer Pocketpair Reveals 3 Patents Involved in Nintendo, The Pokémon Company's In


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Lactobacillus yogurti



Joined: 17 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2024 3:21 pm Reply with quote
And how is this just acceptable?
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Smashingrascal



Joined: 20 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2024 4:26 pm Reply with quote
There is a lot of things you could argue about that Palworld has "stolen" from Pokemon.
But these might be the lamest they could've went with.

Also riding a creature, seriously? Like how (summonable) mounts have always been a thing in games. How humans have ridden animals like horses, camels etc. for centuries.
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Nate148



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2024 4:31 pm Reply with quote
because they are all things from pokemon legends arceus that got stolen by palworld
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Themaster20000



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2024 5:01 pm Reply with quote
Palworld came out way before Nintendo even filed a patent for the whole monster catching ball, so good luck with that one. Would've had a better case going after the Pal designs.
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Hal14



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2024 5:11 pm Reply with quote
It's a very dull read but the patent that "centers on riding" talks about stuff like being able to summon a flying mount while falling mid-air... and i wonder, is that actually a common mechanic? Obviously flying mounts are a thing in many games but the specifics described are the stuff being patented not the general concept of a mount (flying or otherwise). Patents are inherently pedantic. Same with the capture mechanic, the patent isn't talking about the concept of capturing with a ball shaped object but specifically the various switching in poses and aiming involved. Anyone whose played Legends Arceus should know what i mean. I think it's llike how you can't patent the concept of a shooting game but different shooters are mechanicaly different in how feel to shoot?

Themaster20000 wrote:
Palworld came out way before Nintendo even filed a patent for the whole monster catching ball, so good luck with that one. Would've had a better case going after the Pal designs.


The patents were filed in 2021 not 2024. This year was when they were re-registered.
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Smashingrascal



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2024 5:48 pm Reply with quote
Hal14 wrote:
It's a very dull read but the patent that "centers on riding" talks about stuff like being able to summon a flying mount while falling mid-air... and i wonder, is that actually a common mechanic? Obviously flying mounts are a thing in many games but the specifics described are the stuff being patented not the general concept of a mount (flying or otherwise). Patents are inherently pedantic. Same with the capture mechanic, the patent isn't talking about the concept of capturing with a ball shaped object but specifically the various switching in poses and aiming involved. Anyone whose played Legends Arceus should know what i mean. I think it's llike how you can't patent the concept of a shooting game but different shooters are mechanicaly different in how feel to shoot?


Palworld allows you to use certain pals as an alternative to a glider, which I believe is a thing in Ark too. They're (un)summoned by jumping in mid-air.
Behaves like a glider/parachute would. 1 pal acts like a balloon instead.

You can't summon any regular pal/mount in mid-air.
You are able to mount them in air while falling, but they behave similar to any other mount in that they need to be next to you and interacted with.

Don't know how that compares to Pokémon.

(Thanks for the patent explanation btw.)
EDIT: made a mistake you can't summon in mid-air.


Last edited by Smashingrascal on Fri Nov 08, 2024 6:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Hal14



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2024 5:56 pm Reply with quote
Smashingrascal wrote:
Hal14 wrote:
It's a very dull read but the patent that "centers on riding" talks about stuff like being able to summon a flying mount while falling mid-air... and i wonder, is that actually a common mechanic? Obviously flying mounts are a thing in many games but the specifics described are the stuff being patented not the general concept of a mount (flying or otherwise). Patents are inherently pedantic. Same with the capture mechanic, the patent isn't talking about the concept of capturing with a ball shaped object but specifically the various switching in poses and aiming involved. Anyone whose played Legends Arceus should know what i mean. I think it's llike how you can't patent the concept of a shooting game but different shooters are mechanicaly different in how feel to shoot?


Palworld allows you to use certain pals as an alternative to a glider, which I believe is a thing in Ark too. They're (un)summoned by jumping in mid-air.
Behaves like a glider/parachute would. 1 pal acts like a balloon instead.

You can summon any pal in mid-air, you don't immediately mount them though.
You are able to mount them in air while falling, but they behave similar to any other mount in that they need to be next to you and interacted with.

Don't know how that compares to Pokémon.


(Thanks for the patent explanation btw.)


I might check a clip online but if it behaves like a glider that sounds similar to how it operates in Pokemon Legends (To be clear, i'm not saying pokemon patented gliders). Follow-up question: Is there any lift (like you being pushed upwards) when you select these flying/glider mounts on the ground?
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Smashingrascal



Joined: 20 Aug 2012
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2024 6:14 pm Reply with quote
Hal14 wrote:
Smashingrascal wrote:
Hal14 wrote:
It's a very dull read but the patent that "centers on riding" talks about stuff like being able to summon a flying mount while falling mid-air... and i wonder, is that actually a common mechanic? Obviously flying mounts are a thing in many games but the specifics described are the stuff being patented not the general concept of a mount (flying or otherwise). Patents are inherently pedantic. Same with the capture mechanic, the patent isn't talking about the concept of capturing with a ball shaped object but specifically the various switching in poses and aiming involved. Anyone whose played Legends Arceus should know what i mean. I think it's llike how you can't patent the concept of a shooting game but different shooters are mechanicaly different in how feel to shoot?


Palworld allows you to use certain pals as an alternative to a glider, which I believe is a thing in Ark too. They're (un)summoned by jumping in mid-air.
Behaves like a glider/parachute would. 1 pal acts like a balloon instead.

You are able to mount them in air while falling, but they behave similar to any other mount in that they need to be next to you and interacted with.

Don't know how that compares to Pokémon.


(Thanks for the patent explanation btw.)


I might check a clip online but if it behaves like a glider that sounds similar to how it operates in Pokemon Legends (To be clear, i'm not saying pokemon patented gliders). Follow-up question: Is there any lift (like you being pushed upwards) when you select these flying/glider mounts on the ground?


The one pal that's like a balloon has an upwards lift, most others don't.
Some have different horizontal speeds or increased forward momentum but you always lose altitude as far as I can tell.
You can't 'equip' them while grounded, exclusively while airborne. This includes after a jump but you can only glide a few meters on a level ground.

Also a correction, you can mount but you can't summon any pals while mid-air, just checked. It's just those glider types but they appear/disappear during the glide.
I misremembered because you can capture in mid-air, similar animation. My bad.


Last edited by Smashingrascal on Fri Nov 08, 2024 6:31 pm; edited 2 times in total
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thekingsdinner



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2024 6:27 pm Reply with quote
I am not knowledgable at all about the legal stuff concerning patents and all that, but even I can see that Nintendo is super petty. It's honestly pathetic.
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<('_')^



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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2024 6:57 pm Reply with quote
Nintendo is proving to be the Disney of the gaming industry.
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Mune



Joined: 20 May 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2024 7:52 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
The first target patent, Patent No. 7545191, relates to aiming an object towards a character. In other words, it refers to aiming a Pokéball at a Pokémon to initiate combat.


I'm pretty sure other games have done this, like throwing a rock to start combat. Anyone being hit by a rock or similar sized object will more than likely start a fight over it. I would like to also point out that even Square-Enix has taken a chance at something like this with their Prismariums back in 2016.



Quote:
The second patent, Patent No. 7493117, involves catching a character, specifically creature, in a field setting.


"Field setting" seems vague. Does this mean by simply walking up to them and interacting with them? If so, that's existed since the advent of RPGs video games. Maybe the key word is "catching" vs "recruiting"?

Quote:
The third relevant patent is Patent No. 7528390, which centers on riding the creatures.


Mounts have been around before and during other generations of Pokemon. If this was really the case, World of Warcraft and many other MMOs would be in violation of this. It seems too broad.
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Florete



Joined: 21 Jan 2018
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2024 8:03 pm Reply with quote
Game mechanics never should have been patentable.

Mune wrote:
Quote:
The first target patent, Patent No. 7545191, relates to aiming an object towards a character. In other words, it refers to aiming a Pokéball at a Pokémon to initiate combat.


I'm pretty sure other games have done this, like throwing a rock to start combat. Anyone being hit by a rock or similar sized object will more than likely start a fight over it. I would like to also point out that even Square-Enix has taken a chance at something like this with their Prismariums back in 2016.

Quote:
The second patent, Patent No. 7493117, involves catching a character, specifically creature, in a field setting.


"Field setting" seems vague. Does this mean by simply walking up to them and interacting with them? If so, that's existed since the advent of RPGs video games. Maybe the key word is "catching" vs "recruiting"?

Quote:
The third relevant patent is Patent No. 7528390, which centers on riding the creatures.


Mounts have been around before and during other generations of Pokemon. If this was really the case, World of Warcraft and many other MMOs would be in violation of this. It seems too broad.

You need to click the links and read the full details of the patents. ANN is only giving the basics of what they relate to.
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Dr. Wily



Joined: 09 Nov 2007
Posts: 377
PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2024 9:25 pm Reply with quote
Themaster20000 wrote:
Palworld came out way before Nintendo even filed a patent for the whole monster catching ball, so good luck with that one. Would've had a better case going after the Pal designs.


What? It took them until now to put a claim on Pokeballs of all things? I'd have figured that would be something they would have done literal decades ago. Also going after the designs is a way harder case, so it's not hard to see why they'd go another route.

Florete wrote:
Game mechanics never should have been patentable.


Hard agree! It severely undercuts creativity, and strangles good ideas in the crib.
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Joe Mello



Joined: 31 May 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 08, 2024 11:39 pm Reply with quote
Dr. Wily wrote:
Florete wrote:
Game mechanics never should have been patentable.

Hard agree! It severely undercuts creativity, and strangles good ideas in the crib.

While I don't disagree with the sentiment, let me play Devil's Advocate (though who the Devil is is probably a matter of opinion). Say I work for a company as a programmer. As part of the company, I write code that enables a specific process or set of processes to take place. If I or my company should want to sell software that uses this code or just sell the code itself, we should be able to do so and be afforded some level of safety from people who just want to copy the code and try to pass it off as their own. They didn't make it, I did on behalf of my company.

So while I understand "corpo bad!" I also think that people should be able to earn money off the things that they create and a lot of the anti-Nintendo sentiment seems to rub up against this second idea.
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Essedess



Joined: 03 Jan 2024
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 09, 2024 12:21 am Reply with quote
Joe Mello, what you're saying is completely irrelevant in this discussion. This isn't taking code that Nintendo used and passing it off as yours. This is like you make a software that can add numbers and then want to prevent other people making their own software that can add numbers. Nintendo is 100% in the wrong about these particular patterns.
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