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Does The Original Pokémon Hold Up?


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ZelosZoidberg



Joined: 23 May 2018
Posts: 724
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 1:35 pm Reply with quote
For real this time. If Ash/Satoshi loses we riot! I think it would be great for a soft reset and follow someone new and have Ash/Satoshi as the new end goal. Great write up by the way.

Last edited by ZelosZoidberg on Fri Jun 03, 2022 4:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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TsukasaElkKite



Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 4020
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 1:41 pm Reply with quote
I want an animated adaption of Pokemon Special/Pokemon Adventures!
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tintor2



Joined: 11 Aug 2010
Posts: 2124
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 2:03 pm Reply with quote
TsukasaElkKite wrote:
I want an animated adaption of Pokemon Special/Pokemon Adventures!

Me too but I bet it might be difficult to the producers from a marketing point of view unless they directly start from the most current. There was another Pokemon manga but it sure was NFSW.
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meiam



Joined: 23 Jun 2013
Posts: 3450
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 2:45 pm Reply with quote
As a massive fan of the game before the anime dropped, I was pretty disappointed by the story ultimately. I remember watching TV for show that I didn't care just so I'd get to see the commercial for the show pre airing, but by the end of the first season I'd regularly skip episode. Ash seemed to stubbornly refuse to become a better trainer so I guess it make sense that he would eventually get knocked down at the end. But as a kid I would have liked a story of someone slowly improving himself and ultimately triumphing more than the story of a buffoon who constantly get lucky and win until he doesn't. Ash not evolving Pikachu always ticked me off, and whenever he'd face any sort of challenge I'd always think "just evolve Pikachu!". I didn't realize at the time that this was done for marketing reason, so it just seemed like Ash was just intent on self sabotaging, which didn't really make his failure stick.

Maybe if the show felt more like it was "in" on Ash being kinda a loser and it was more of a wacky comedy I'd have liked it more. But as is, its not even interesting in the way the first Yugioh season is with its complete ignorance of the rule of the game.
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Villain-chan





PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 3:20 pm Reply with quote
meiam wrote:
As a massive fan of the game before the anime dropped, I was pretty disappointed by the story ultimately. I remember watching TV for show that I didn't care just so I'd get to see the commercial for the show pre airing, but by the end of the first season I'd regularly skip episode. Ash seemed to stubbornly refuse to become a better trainer so I guess it make sense that he would eventually get knocked down at the end. But as a kid I would have liked a story of someone slowly improving himself and ultimately triumphing more than the story of a buffoon who constantly get lucky and win until he doesn't. Ash not evolving Pikachu always ticked me off, and whenever he'd face any sort of challenge I'd always think "just evolve Pikachu!". I didn't realize at the time that this was done for marketing reason, so it just seemed like Ash was just intent on self sabotaging, which didn't really make his failure stick.

Maybe if the show felt more like it was "in" on Ash being kinda a loser and it was more of a wacky comedy I'd have liked it more. But as is, its not even interesting in the way the first Yugioh season is with its complete ignorance of the rule of the game.
Well, let me help u lose that tick then. lol U wouldn't like it if someone forced YOU to change, would u? More so if that change forced u into a physical form with dif abilities that are dif from ur own now would u? Even if u said yes, Pikachu to this DAY does not wish to evo and the fact remains it'd be MORE incompetent as a Trainer to IGNORE what ur Pokemon wants as they are living creatures with a will and life of their own. If Ash FORCED Pikachu to evo, that Pokemon would have LEFT him, guarantee u that. The only reason why Pikachu became fond of Ash is becus he realized how much Ash loves Pokemon and Pikachu too considering he risked his LIFE trying to protect him from a flock of Spearow. So while it may have ticked u off in the past, i hope it doesn't anymore. That said, I agree, he was way to cocky, lucky, stubborn and thankfully, he did grow (SLOWLY) as a person and pokemon trainer. The Ash of now is not the same as the Ash of old. lol So u did get what u wanted in the end, just took a long time for that to happen.
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Rob19ny



Joined: 13 Jun 2020
Posts: 1976
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 3:45 pm Reply with quote
Does Pocket Monsters hold up? Of course it does. It has things that the sequel series got rid of either because kids in Japan got seizures (this is understandable) or the producers wanted to cater to Western fan base to get more money by removing things Japanese audiences have no issue with (You can take a guess). Plus, the way Satoshi, Kasumi, and Takeshi act as a group is unique and the sequel cast just can't replicate that.

The original PM is still good, and I say that with XY/Z being my favorite series (until the staff made a poor decision to... you know). The series has evolved for the better in regards to battles (XY/Z for example), but the original will always have something to make me want to watch it again.

Quote:
The golden rule that “Ash can't win a Pokémon tournament” has already arguably been broken when you consider the fact that Ash is the champion of the Alola League.


How can you say that and not consider the fact that Satoshi is the champion of the Orange League?

Anyway, I want a mature PM anime and game one day. It has to be late night and the game has to be Cero C (15+) because I know they won't do Cero D (17+). Blood, death, fanservice, etc. It'd sell and they know it. Obviously, this would be a spinoff they can make as a side project to the main childrens series thats already getting childrens spinoffs.
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all-tsun-and-no-dere
ANN Reviewer


Joined: 06 Jul 2015
Posts: 656
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 4:14 pm Reply with quote
Rob19ny wrote:
the producers wanted to cater to Western fan base to get more money by removing things Japanese audiences have no issue with (You can take a guess).


Yeah, it's really messed up how the Japanese staff stopped having the characters eat riceballs and gave them donuts instead

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/40/d3/d7/40d3d7ba97470d9c375c0109da092952--the-donut-pokemon-birthday.jpg
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MarshalBanana



Joined: 31 Aug 2014
Posts: 5508
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 4:21 pm Reply with quote
I haven't watched Pokemon properly for almost two decades, so what I'm about to say might be wrong. About 10ish years ago i was at a friends house and he put Pokemon, Ash was travelling with these two companions(a girl and a boy), Brock was no longer there. In the episode someone was teaching Ash about different elemental types, way back when I first watched the show he learnt that, so I was left with the impression that once in awhile the show has a soft reboot, likely to bring up to speed new fan.

So in relation to how the video/article sums this up, it seems that Ash can be on the same journey forever because past accomplishments and failures are forgotten about. Remember that while diehard fans will watch this years to come, most people will get into it at a young age and then drop it in their teens. So for them, Ash can relearn and regrow and they won't be any the wiser.
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MarshalBanana



Joined: 31 Aug 2014
Posts: 5508
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 4:32 pm Reply with quote
@Villain-chan Given that they capture Pokemon in tiny balls and then have them fight against other Pokemon where they get hurt enough that they need to be sent to a hospital, and this is common enough that hospitals just for Pokemon are located everywhere. I don't see how forcing a Pokemon to evolve is immoral in that world.
Rob19ny wrote:
How can you say that and not consider the fact that Satoshi is the champion of the Orange League?
I always thought it was a missed opportunity that Orange Islands never got a game based on them. You could get a Lapras as a starter Pokemon and use it to sale from island to island.
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BonusStage



Joined: 24 Oct 2011
Posts: 307
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 4:40 pm Reply with quote
all-tsun-and-no-dere wrote:
Yeah, it's really messed up how the Japanese staff stopped having the characters eat riceballs and gave them donuts instead


I believe they're referring to how older series of Pokemon had more violence, fanservice, and other content that you don't see in the anime much these days. Pokemon did start to westernize itself around the time even the games removed the casino elements all because of European laws. The earlier seasons do have a much more authentic and natural feel to them compared to later ones. The Japanese culture being more toned down is also a factor, to be sure.

I'll also say XY is my favorite series. Following by Diamond and Pearl and then Best Wishes. I dropped the anime during Sun and Moon and what I've seen of 2019 I haven't been a big fan of. Anime Iris being the Isshu champion seems wrong since she was much different from game Iris and much more of a novice rather than a Gym Leader. Just another retcon I guess. At this rate I would be happy if the Satoshi era ended and we got something new, or at least a return to the older series formats.
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FEHedgehog



Joined: 05 Jan 2020
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 5:40 pm Reply with quote
BonusStage wrote:
or at least a return to the older series formats.


Not a good idea on that part in regards to where it's at right now. I have seen a lot of people have been against that idea to being consistent to the continuity. Mainly being the gym battles. It's due to the fact that since he's practically at the highest scale right now as the article says, duking it out with the top trainers in the world, regional champions at that, it would not come off as believable if he starts struggling or loosing, therefore the tensions won't come out at all. It's basically the scenario with the transition from DP to BW where Ash preformed really well at the Sinnoh league really well at the end of DP and then was easily loosing against a new trainer early on. In this scenario, transitioning away from Journeys is really more frail than normal. It's way easier to have the DP/BW scenario that can cause backlash if they casually reboot the normal way they do, even if it doesn't turn out as bad as with BW. As the article quotes, "it's hard to top what is being done right now"
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Juno016



Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 2425
PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2022 11:59 pm Reply with quote
MarshalBanana wrote:
I haven't watched Pokemon properly for almost two decades, so what I'm about to say might be wrong. About 10ish years ago i was at a friends house and he put Pokemon, Ash was travelling with these two companions(a girl and a boy), Brock was no longer there. In the episode someone was teaching Ash about different elemental types, way back when I first watched the show he learnt that, so I was left with the impression that once in awhile the show has a soft reboot, likely to bring up to speed new fan.


I'll try to explain the "soft reset" thing best I can:

The only season that fits this bill is "Best Wish!" ("Black&White"), which is the only season to truly go the "soft reset" route at the start. Before BW, Satoshi (Ash) had sometimes purposely chosen to use a type disadvantage or underevolved Pokemon against a stronger pokemon, but he knew what he was doing almost every time and this was just considered an underdog quirk of his. Previous seasons also had deliberate continuity between season endings and beginnings, with the only consistent "reset" involving him parting with his old team in order to start a new one from scratch. In BW, purposeful quirks turned into a sign of stupidity, where he would forget type advantages or Pokemon and previous strategies. One episode used his stupidity as a punchline when a whole town was brainwashed except for him, Pikachu, and Team Rocket. The culprit admitsted the brainwashing doesn't work on idiots. The show then sped through gym battles and he lost the preliminaries at the league with a 1-on-1 in just 60-or-so episodes. It was really bad. However, the second half of the series (after the league) abandons the reset, starts focusing on actual characterization and development of his companions, brings back Hikari (Dawn) for a dozen episodes or so, and starts explicitely recalling early episodes. Decolor Adventures (the last short cour of episodes) specifically flashes back and reanimates old scenes, and his Lizardon (Charizard) returns from the valley it has been training in since Johto as well. The last season introduces a character who will follow the crew into XY, creating more continuity. XY starts off with Satoshi showing he's no amateur and the entire season is better for it by the end. After that, Sun&Moon doesn't "soft reset" the series, but it no longer focuses on the league (until the last few episodes) and goes episodic, meaning a good chunk of episodes could be watched without context. The newest season carries the episodic nature, but it DEFINITELY does not "soft reset" anything considering its plot revolves around revisiting old friends and regions and sometimes even finishing open plot/character threads left hanging in older seasons.
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Cardcaptor Takato



Joined: 27 Jan 2018
Posts: 5191
PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2022 2:36 am Reply with quote
Why did Viz just stop releasing the OG Pokemon on BD after episode 50? They put out one set of the first half of the Indigo League on BD and then just stopped which makes buying it pointless since you have to double dip for the DVD set to own the rest of the Kanto episodes.
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meiam



Joined: 23 Jun 2013
Posts: 3450
PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2022 11:06 am Reply with quote
Villain-chan wrote:
Well, let me help u lose that tick then. lol U wouldn't like it if someone forced YOU to change, would u? More so if that change forced u into a physical form with dif abilities that are dif from ur own now would u? Even if u said yes, Pikachu to this DAY does not wish to evo and the fact remains it'd be MORE incompetent as a Trainer to IGNORE what ur Pokemon wants as they are living creatures with a will and life of their own. If Ash FORCED Pikachu to evo, that Pokemon would have LEFT him, guarantee u that. The only reason why Pikachu became fond of Ash is becus he realized how much Ash loves Pokemon and Pikachu too considering he risked his LIFE trying to protect him from a flock of Spearow. So while it may have ticked u off in the past, i hope it doesn't anymore. That said, I agree, he was way to cocky, lucky, stubborn and thankfully, he did grow (SLOWLY) as a person and pokemon trainer. The Ash of now is not the same as the Ash of old. lol So u did get what u wanted in the end, just took a long time for that to happen.


Oh sure, but then he should have benched Pikachu and used another pokemon. Ash essentially handicapped himself, so his failure were squarely his own fault. So when he lost I wouldn't go "Oh noooooooooo, Ash lost!?" I'd just go "Well obviously, can he finally learn now?". I supposed he did, but as a kid I wasn't going to watch 300+ episodes just to get there, I was just kinda bored after the first OG season.
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AmpersandsUnited



Joined: 22 Mar 2012
Posts: 633
PostPosted: Sat Jun 04, 2022 11:26 am Reply with quote
FEHedgehog wrote:
It's basically the scenario with the transition from DP to BW where Ash preformed really well at the Sinnoh league really well at the end of DP and then was easily loosing against a new trainer early on.


I feel this, and Best Wishes in general, is something people really overblow and misremember. In that particular instant Pikachu was temporarily weakened due to his encounter with Zekrom where he got all his energy drained. Pikachu was one-siding that battle with physical moves until he tried to use his electric attacks, which he couldn't do due to Zekrom and subsequently got blindsided by his opponent while trying to make it work. Not to say there wasn't certain instances of idiocy (only betting on one Pokemon in his battle against Kamitsure and forgetting Pokemon's genders sometimes) but I feel a lot of situations in the series are misremembered and misrepresented. For the first Gym Battle he purposely uses a type disadvantage Pokemon because he says it's more fun that way. Typical shounen protagonist behavior.

Best Wishes biggest problem was the 2011 Tōhoku earthquake essentially ruined all the plans the writers had for the show. Shelving the Team Rocket VS Team Plasma storyline and shuffling episode around to compensate really threw the pacing of the show off pretty early on which unfortunately lasted until the Episode N which then was very rushed as a result. It's a shame because it was shaping up to be a very interesting direction the series was heading to. We still got some interesting mini-arcs like Nyarth joining the good guys temporarily and the Don Battle tournaments and I really like the new characters they introduced like Cabernet and Langley. They had good interactions with Dent and Iris. Bel was top waifu material as well. It also actually let the characters rotate Pokemon rather than just being limited to 6 and then having to release them in an emotional goodbye before they can catch new ones. Satoshi running out mid-gym battle to switch out his Pokemon in his PC box was very humorous.
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