Forum - View topicREVIEW: Mobile Suit Victory Gundam Sub. Blu-Ray
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Vaisaga
 Posts: 13243 |
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I dislike Victory for mostly the same reason I'm not super fond of Zeta Gundam: It's just too bleak. Like, "such a downer my energy only lasts 2-3 episodes a sitting" bleak.
That said, I do like Victory over Zeta because the characters are so much more likable and have better chemistry. The AEUG was a band of idiots who spent so much time nagging and arguing with each other that the only reason they lasted so long is because the Titans were even more inept. The League Militaire got along much better and were considerably more endearing. So much so that there's a certain endgame death I'm still pissed about. |
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HEDGESMFG
Posts: 5 |
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If she thinks 'this' half of Victory is sad, wait until she reaches part 2.
The show is actually much more brutal in the second half (and unlike the first, most of the deaths, with one or two exceptions, don't seem quite as shoe-horned in for the sake of it) Some truly hard hitting moments are coming, and the finale is a true display of how horrible a desperate war can become. Despite the odd mix of a youthful cast with insane, violent feminists, I think Victory has one of the best Gundam depictions of just how bad war can get. It also features almost no recycled footage, and a tons of really, really strong fight choreography. Despite the animation being "simpler" to watch at many points (hint: there's a lot more heavily shaded scenes than people think. All of which look great in HD), I love the show visually as well. Glad to see this one being given a fair shake. |
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TranceLimit174
 Posts: 963 |
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That's no surprise considering Victory models its entire plot structure off of Zeta.
You aren't the only one. It brings down my entire perspective on the series as a whole. It's that bad. |
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AiddonValentine
 Posts: 2392 |
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Man, it's no wonder Sunrise followed this up with G-Gundam. Everyone needed something goofy to cleanse the palate.
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SilverTalon01
Posts: 2421 |
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It has been a while since I saw it, but I can't believe I forgot the antagonists were a bunch of feminazis.
The similarities to Zeta are a major reason why Victory falls flat to me. Rather than tragic, the deaths feel to me like Tomino forced them in an attempt to recreate the impact the deaths of important characters had in Zeta. That and the motivations and actions of the characters were a bit too ridiculous. Not Turn-A level where characters for whatever reason often do really stupid things directly and obviously in conflict with their goals, but still kind of ridiculous. I mean I guess at least for Uso, I should probably give him more slack for being 13... but most gundam protagonists are teens (even if not quite as young) while acting more mature than their ages. This didn't quite tank Turn-A for me because it seemed to be going for more of the fun ride approach, but it would have drastically lowered my opinion if it were going for serious, tragic war story like Victory. |
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BodaciousSpacePirate
 Subscriber Posts: 3024 |
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I've never realized it before, but I own Gundam model kits from every series except Victory and Age. Weird.
Edit: wait, nevermind, I have a Sangokuden V2 Assault Buster. |
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TranceLimit174
Posts: 963 |
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Nailed it. |
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Kicksville
 Posts: 1267 |
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Glad to see a review here – since the blu-ray first came out a few months ago and that one new viewer Gundam guide article a while back dismissed it completely with little reason, I was thinking it was gonna be ignored.
Speaking of that, despite the brief references to things like Minovsky particles, I do think the show is still completely understandable for newcomers. V Gundam is one of my favorites. It feels more like a survival story than ever, with how desperate the situation is and what scrappy tactics our protagonists have to resort to, and it's easy to feel closer to the characters as a result. That, and how distant the Zanscare Empire seems for a while, with it not being entirely apparent what their deal is (what does it matter at that moment when you're under attack and just trying not to die?), which sort of puts us in the same position. There's a tendency for Tomino directed shows to keep going without directly holding the viewer's hand on what's going on, which varies by show (I'd put the original Gundam on the more obvious end and something like Brain Powered or G-Reco on the more obscure end) - this feels like a comfortable spot somewhere in the middle. But while following the story itself is easy enough, there are some themes which may not be entirely obvious...I don't want to say too much, but I think one of the most major and interesting ones is on how fascism can be attractive. There tends to be a lot of focus on how many people die in this show, and how it can be pretty depressing...and that is true. I can't really argue against that. At the same time, I don't know if I'd say the show is entirely bleak. Uso and the gang are not completely unsuccessful, after all, and it's easy to get caught up in the adventure aspect of that (not to mention this show, believe it or not, has some of the Gundam franchise's most wacky slapstick). V Gundam is real good, please give it a try. |
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Topgunguy
 Posts: 258 |
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I like that Victory Gundam took a stab at feminism but I wish it was more entertaining. It probably would be a little more so if it had a dub but alas RIghtstuff are not willing to finish the job that Bandai abandoned, but again, only a little bit. The humor was more forced than that of ZZ Gundam because at least it took place after the Zeta finale and then picked up with the seriousness. Victory had comedy sprinkled all over despite having a kill count that rivals Rambo, it just doesn't fit with the rest of the series.
Definitely not the best Gundam series overall and only worth watching if you've made it far enough into UC that you might as well finish it off. |
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Kicksville
Posts: 1267 |
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...Iiiiii've never really bought this particular reading, as it's always struck me as a very surface level interpretation of certain events and characters. There is some weird stuff here and there, no doubt about that, but by the end, I definitely didn't come away with the impression that it's saying feminism is wrong or something. Kind of the opposite, in fact. To jump all the way to the finish, spoiler[it is patently obvious that Maria was largely manipulated by Fonse Kagatie, following that classic Tomino trope, It's That One Old Guy's Fault and He Really Just Needs to Die Already. Katejina's actions are simply seen as being "crazy", as if the point of her character arc is to say "oooo bitches be crazy", but I don't think that does justice to her story (which has to do with that aforementioned attractiveness of fascism - consider her gateway was Chronicle Asher. The infamous Bazooka Bikini Squad sequence strikes me as something of an absurd mini-interpretation of the relationship Kagatie set up between Maria and the civilians who worship her). Meanwhile you've also got characters like Marbet, who remains one of the best pilots from start to finish and is largely the leader who keeps the gang going - and even though the Shrike Team gets demolished, it's not as if there was anything less noble or important about their actions. I'm not sure how brave women fighting and dying for a better future by their own will is anti-feminist. Again, "some women doing bad things" = "FEMINISM IS BAD FOREVER" is pretty shallow, and given the other elements of the show, I don't think that's what it's getting at.] |
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BodaciousSpacePirate
Subscriber Posts: 3024 |
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You often see Victory held up as some kind of "matriarchy is bad" counterpoint to F91's supposed "patriarchy is bad" message, but it's anyone's guess whether this corresponds to any conscious effort on the part of the shows' creators. On his best day, Tomino's works are weighed down by so many disparate and contradictory themes that I really don't think there's much point to trying to get inside his head and figure out what he definitively did or didn't think about women back in 1993. |
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Angel'sArcanum
 Posts: 304 Location: Toronto, Ontario |
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Yeah, I don't see where all the anti-feminism sentiments come from, Kagatie and the other political figures of Zanscare (all dudes) were the real villains mainly. I think Katejina is just kind of crazy though, although I think I may have caught on to some clues about her upon rewatching the early episodes way back, I think it was her succumbing to the trauma she witnessed versus Uso's bit of optimism and resolve that just kept eating at her to the point where she wanted to antagonize him and stop caring for others, and somewhere along the way got corralled into being fully on board with Zanscare's matriarchal annihilation scheme, though again, Maria was really a figurehead whose ideals were tainted by the politicians, and she believed she was unable to stop them at that point which is where she wishes to Shakti to do what she couldn't or something.
Been a while since I've seen it, probably need to do a thorough rewatch. I'm part of the "Victory is Zeta done better" camp myself, the deaths were actually traumatic, perhaps due in part to the cast being more likable and human than Zeta's angsty puppets, it feels a bit less tedious and it plays with some more nuanced ideas towards the end that are pretty neat. The pacing drags around the journey into space and Zanscare infiltration parts, and there are a few nagging questions I still have at the end I don't know about (Cronicle's actual motivations, how Shakti is just able to rework the spoiler[Angel Halo] to do whatever she tells it and perhaps some other things I'm missing. I think Victory and Zeta are pretty close, but where Victory is consistent but doesn't have any huge strengths, Zeta is redeemed a bit by a few big points to me (Haman and Scirocco, Reccoa, and the last few episodes) where it is otherwise quite a slog. |
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SilverTalon01
Posts: 2421 |
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I don't think it was necessarily saying feminism (the kind that wants actual equality) was wrong. I think it does point to a certain brand of feminism and point out how much of a ridiculous joke it is. |
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BodaciousSpacePirate
Subscriber Posts: 3024 |
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I recommend reading up on what feminism is like in Japan before you decide what "brand" of feminism Tomino would have been familiar with during the early 90s. |
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DeTroyes
 Posts: 521 |
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Not really one of my favorite Gundam shows; I would much rather Tomino had succeeded in developing F91 into a series. But its still way better than the show that came after (G-Gundam, which I regard as the worst Gundam series ever). So long as you don't get too attached to anyone, its passable.
Its pretty obvious to me that Tomino was just going by the numbers on this one. He put together basically a knock-off story spoiler[with a heavy dose of his characteristic "kill 'em all"], and then coasted. Didn't know he was suffering from depression at the time, but I'm not surprised; the series just feels like he wasn't really trying. IIRC, after this show ended he took a sabbatical from Gundam and didn't come back until Turn-A, which was markedly better. |
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