Forum - View topicAnswerman - Categorization Is Death
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maximilianjenus
Posts: 2903 |
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why does it even need to be categorized at all ?
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Hoppy800
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Demographics can be a mess, for one you have a lot of works classified as Shounen which really should be Seinen due to the content but ended up published in a Shounen magazine or Seinen that should be Shounen for the same reasons. Then you have Periphery Demographics to take account for, Shounen is at least consisting of 50% female viewers/readers while some Shoujo series particularly Mahou Shoujo for kids depending on the series either has a substantial adult male fanbase, adult female fanbase, or both.
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mgosdin
 Posts: 1302 Location: Kissimmee, Florida, USA |
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The thing about streaming is that the underlying technology is going to change, guaranteed, and I don't think we can trust any service - video or music - to be around in the same form in four or five years.
It's fun to rub shoulders with older guys and girls as well as teens in the Manga aisle at the Books a Million. When I was buying Sailor Moon for my collection I saw all kinds of people buying the series. It keeps happening, all those teen girls with the AoT manga.
I intend to do so and will avoid traveling for the same reasons as Justin. If you are stuck traveling in traffic, do be careful. Have a happy holiday! Mark Gosdin |
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terminus24
 Posts: 304 |
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I remember a few years back when the Marvel Anime shows were on G4, only one I watched was Iron Man due to me having absolutely zero interest in American comics, but I had seen and enjoyed the Iron Man movies, and it managed to at least kinda fit into the canon of the movies at the time.
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Ashen Phoenix
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Well said. |
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rizuchan
 Posts: 980 Location: Kansas |
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Categorization can be useful because it helps us know what to expect from series that might otherwise be in the same genre.
For example, I'm a fan of (most) romance anime. But there is a huge difference in romance titles amongst different demographic categories.
Seinen romance often has harems, fanservice and unbelievably virginal girls. "saving girls from tragedy" is a big theme for dramatic Seinen romance (e.g. CLANNAD and many other visual novel-based titles) The story ends when they guy gets the girl. (if he ever does) Shoujo romance is a bit more down to earth (especially on sexual topics) but often has over the top drama, though usually less tragedy than Seinen. They're very "chick-flick romantic comedy'-esque, or have fantasy elements. The story doesn't end when the couple gets together, though they may or may not take a long time to get together. Jousei romance is very down to earth. Relationships are usually quite realistic and sex isn't taboo at all. Still lots of drama but rarely if ever any fantasy. (As in, "faeries and unicorns" fantasy, there's plenty of romantic fantasy) I love Jousei titles and a lot of Shoujo, and while there are definitely Seinen titles I like, I am generally wary of them since I don't care for fanservice, harems or "Oh no a boy touched my boob now I can't be a virginal wife" shows. I also happen to be a female in my mid 20s, which makes me - oh my! - right in the target demographic for Jousei. So it makes a lot of sense for me to look for other Jousei titles. On the other hand, It's really refreshing to see so many guys on the internet talking about and enjoying Shoujo romance shows, and I'm guessing they never would have given them a try if they had a big "THIS IS FOR 15-YEAR OLD GIRLS" sticker slapped on the poster. So categorizing things is definitely a double-edged sword. |
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scottfrye
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I think one reason we didn't get the Stitch anime in the US is because Disney already had a Stitch TV series here in the US.
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SpacemanHardy
Posts: 2509 |
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Yeah, and they actually had a crossover episode, if you can believe it. |
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katscradle
Posts: 469 |
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I always use magazines for classifications. People do seem to be more aware of different magazines these days so a style and artist line-up for that publication usually emerges. Not that it's easy though since there are some grey magazines that are mixed demographics and even within demographic majority magazines styles can be varied. I'm not sure why the traditional genre classifications (fantasy, sci-fi, romance, etc.) doesn't work well for Japanese comics.
Pet peeve sorry. I'm glad you showed the long "o" for describing girl's comics because" shojo" actually means virgin [処女] and it bugs me to see "shoujo" simplified even though that happens when foreign words become more common in different languages. But, women's comics does not have a long "o", it's "josei" [女性]. "Jousei" is again another word [情勢]. I know what you mean as well but grammatically "manga" or "comic" or something should go after the girl/women/men part too like you said "Josei titles, Seinen titles". When people say "I like shoujo" I think first that they like girls (which may or may not be true). Really sorry again I see lots of people doing this it's just confusing. 
Last edited by katscradle on Fri May 22, 2015 12:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ryo Hazuki
Posts: 370 Location: Finland |
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Some years ago Mika Nakashima had several of her albums on Spotify. At this moment, at least Perfume, Kyary Pamyu Pamyu, Babymetal, Crystal Kay, Dreams Come True, Akiko Yano, Yukihiro Takahashi, Momoiro Clover Z, Ayaka Hirahara, Mihimaru GT and some others have part of their catalogue on Finnish/Nordic Spotify. This could change any day.
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Utsuro no Hako
Posts: 1052 |
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You have to distinguish between romcoms, which are what you're describing here, and serious romance stories, which are very different. Series like Evergreen, Good Ending, Your Lie in April and A Town Where You Live are shounen, but they're closer in tone to serious shoujo romances like Say I Love You than to Nisekoi or Clannad. |
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Agent355
 Posts: 5113 Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready... |
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It's kind of sad how corporate brand management interferes with creativity and even whether cartoons can air in certain countries. Although, I guess these corporate controlled cartoons are the *least* creative of the lot. IWhen creators try to be inventive despite brand micromanagement and their effects are stymied (cough *Spectacular Spider-Man*cough) that it's really sad.
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Juno016
 Posts: 2425 |
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Thank you for answering my question, Justin. While it's not important to hold to the system when talking about manga based on what content is in the manga, it's still important to have a system of classification when talking to Japanese people about them. I probably could've realized the answer by how manga are sorted in stores in Japan (placement are by classification, with individual sections for each magazine), but now I know 100%.
However, thanks to your answer, I have an extension to the question that may or may not have a real answer: What about anime originals? Especially if they don't have a manga counterpart? Do they even have a classification or does that only really apply to manga works? |
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configspace
Posts: 3717 |
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The biggest misconception is thinking of Shoujo, Josei, etc as genres. They're demographics. Genres deals content. As Justin mentioned, the publisher determines the demographics, pure and simple. You absolutely cannot make assumptions on demographics going by content. For example, there's a ton of Shounen manga that most people would assume is too mature (i.e. too risque, too ecchi) to be Shounen. Likewise, there's a ton of Seinen manga that most people would assume is not. Most of the 4-koma manga like K-On is Seinen. |
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lebrel
Posts: 374 |
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This is depressingly true, but the solution isn't to remove the categorization; it's to remove the stigma. The problem here is sexism, not labels; it's ridiculous that we still accept that male-targeted media is for everyone but female-targeted media has girl cooties ewww.
Nonsense. If a work was published in a shounen magazine, the editors thought they could get teenage boys to buy it. If a work was published in a seinen magazine, the editors though they could get adult men to buy it (or at least college boys). If the magazine was willing to run it and the audience was willing to buy it, your opinion of whether the content is age-appropriate is completely irrelevant to its categorization. I like that Japanese publishers are more willing to take risks in what they will sell to younger audiences. Teenage boys like gore and boobies; shounen magazines are willing to go there where American YA publishers wouldn't. Teenage girls like smut and kinky relationships; shoujo magazines ditto. Unless they get too much pushback from parents and PTAs or active interference from the government, magazines will publish whatever their target audience will buy. I also like the Japanese system in part because it cuts through the "[this demographic] likes this, [that demographic] likes that" arguments. Girls like horror and action too; when some clueless person says "but Banana Fish is a violent action series, it can't be for girls!", you can just point out that it ran in one of the pinkest, sparkliest shoujo magazines ever published. Older guys like idealism and fluff; thus we get Chi's Sweet Home and Yotsuba&!. Adult women like gag comics. Teenage boys like sweet romances. We don't have to go with your subjective impressions of what audience this or that content "should" be for; the magazines track what's selling and who's buying it.
So? The fact that a work is primarily targeting one audience doesn't mean that nobody else will ever read it or enjoy it. Lots of Western adults read children's and YA books; that doesn't change the fact that those books were written for kids/teens. |
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