Forum - View topicWhat's with the Alice in Wonderland worship in anime?
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Sohma_Curse
 Posts: 512 Location: New York |
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There are a bunch of shows that have an episode based on Alice in Wonderland (mainly CLAMP stuff, though I've seen it in other series too); usually being titled, simply, 'X-character in Wonderland,' and usually having nothing to do with the plot and/or are tacked on as an OVA. Does this particular story have significant cultural relevance in Japan? Also, do these Alice-themed stories appear in the manga these shows are based off of?
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MadMan400096
 Posts: 266 Location: Chicopee, MA |
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It's not just anime. Countless western cartoons, comics, and et cetera have had Alice in Wonderland parodies as well (the Garfield and Friends episode "Orson in Wonderland" and the October 2009 Pearls Before Swine arc where Larry the Croc winds up in a Pearls version of Wonderland come to mind for me).
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Sohma_Curse
Posts: 512 Location: New York |
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I know it occurs in western animation too. But most western cartoons run for way more than 12-26 episodes, which is why it struck me as odd that since most anime have such a short duration, they'd dedicate an entire episode to it (or, like I said, they'll make an OVA out of it). It's not like there's a shortage of source material - in fact, too often shows will leave out important plot elements from the manga they're based off of that could elaborate on vague or poorly explained details. I don't read manga/comics, which is why I asked if these parodies appear in them. |
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One-Eye
 Posts: 2267 |
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I think its just pretty normal wherever you go and in many mediums to find stuff that's borrowed or influential. Movies, music, comics, manga, etc. From Jefferson Airplane's song White Rabbit, to Blood the Last Vampire live action movie when the girl answers the question about Saya at the end and responds "through the looking glass". I seem to recall some Alice elements in the anime Pandora Hearts (never finished it). I think its based off a manga too. In computer games American McGee's Alice and Alice: Madness Returns are two that easily come to mind, plus there's some games from Japan that I can't recall right this second that had some Alice stuff too (Kingdom Hearts maybe?).
I think its just no different from any medium, borrowing from other cultures or art forms to create art. Just like Japanese woodblock prints influenced some of the Impressionist painters in Europe. Many artists mine other cultures for inspiration, ideas, interpretations, jokes, parodies, etc. |
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Chiibi
 Posts: 4829 |
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I think the OP does raise a point though. While it's not just anime, anime is the medium that seems to make Alice references the most. Although anime uses other fairytales/novel material too, they are not used quite as much as Alice.
And I think it's because Alice has so many interesting things to work with. Alice herself, the rabbit, the queen, all the other weird, quirky characters Alice meets, along with all the strange things that happen to her. You can do quite a lot-it just makes for a good set-up. You can also count on one thing: Japan seems fascinated with the strange. You have to admit, the most odd, most "trippy" moments in animation are usually from anime. So I think they just have an extra fondness for Alice and its oddities. |
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HaruhiToy
 Posts: 4118 |
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And don't forget: Lewis Carroll was the original lolicon.
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Kruszer
 Posts: 7994 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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Because an influential book/film is influential? You also see a lot Star Wars, Star Trek, Terminator, etc. references in lots of anime. Heck the Xenosaga series blatantly rips off Star Trek sound effects if I remember correctly, and Star Wars like lightsabers are all over the place in anime.
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EricJ
 Posts: 876 |
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As usual with most Japanese interpretations of Western stories, it's just possible that they Don't Quite Get It:
They know at some point it involves nice evocative English-Victorian imagery of a girl in a big ploofy loli-goth style dress (she never wore stripey socks in the Tenniel illustrations, that I was ever aware of), having nice civilized Western Victorian tea in big chairs with a Harvey-like anthropomorphic rabbit, and a nice gentleman in a big top hat. At some point, they know that she falls down things, and the dress acts as a big ploofy parachute (most likely from the Disney), and that at various points magic devices are used. They're not quite clear on that point; they tend to think the innocent little Victorian-fetish girl is doing all the magic things herself. (Hence "Alice" turning up as a codeword for magic, psychic powers, etc., qv. Gakuen Alice.) And the story's only "trippy" to those who don't get Lewis Carroll's bad puns and recircuited logic (nobody got Monty Python either, when that first arrived, and everyone thought they were "on drugs" when they started talking about dead parrots)--And as many of those puns likely lose something in the translation, the Japanese just stick to the Victorian-fetish tea imagery, and innocent little waifs playing about with arcane magic powers. |
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Bango
 Posts: 1122 |
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When I think of the "young girls having adventures" thing that the japanese love so much 3 stories come to mind: Anne of Green Gables, Alice in Wonderland and The Wizard of Oz. And I see references to all 3 used rampantly in japanese media (although the Oz thing seems to be more popular with Koreans if MMOs are anything to gauge by)
Worshipped as she is in Japan we can cut Anne out of this because we need to draw on fantasy imagery and she doesn't really have it. So I'd say a better question is "Why is there so much more Alice than Oz in anime?" since they both seem to capture many of the same pulls. And to answer that I can only assume they find high-class Victorian English stuff interesting. At least far moreso than flying monkeys and Kansas. Hell even Queen's Blade has an Alice in Wonderland character now. Though I do wonder if I've seen more Alice or Red Riding Hood in anime. That's gotta be one seriously close match. |
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Polycell
 Posts: 4623 |
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Does anybody know if the Japanese view on Oz is shaped by the first movie or the books? If the latter, it may simply be that Wonderland is just easier to get a character into: falling down a rabbit hole is a whole lot simpler to deal with than flinging someone to an unknown corner of the world(and that's ignoring getting them back). As for why the west prefers Oz, it's more accurate to say what's preferred is the MGM movie: both the all-just-a-dream ending and omission of anything too weird help keep it in line with western tastes and make it possible to jam into just about any series with a sense of humor.
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EricJ
Posts: 876 |
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The Japanese didn't have the indoctrination in seeing the MGM traditionally on TV every year, so it's more likely from the books. (And the tendency to confuse Dorothy with Alice.) Qv. the Oz-book anime series we got back in the 80's, for those who remember kids' shows on HBO. Peter Pan also heavily turns up, looking more like the books than the Disney iconography. Although in all three cases, it's more likely the Japanese becoming aware of the stories' existence through Western/Disney movies, but not having the cultural domination of the movie versions' omnipresence that we have. |
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yuna49
 Posts: 3804 |
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Even outside of Alice in Wonderland, there seem to be a number of Alices in recent shows. In both Ikoku Meiro no Croisee and again in Kiniro Mosaic, the upper-class European girl is an Alice, living in France and England respectively. The heroine of the first Shadow Hearts video game by Aruze is a British girl named Alice.
Of course, there's also Arusu, the "Alice" in Mahou Shoujotai Arusu. She falls off a building rather than down a rabbit hole to end up in her magical world, and it's as dicey a proposition as Carroll's Wonderland. |
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HaruhiToy
Posts: 4118 |
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There was also an Arisu in Serial Experiments Lain. I would also add to your list the "Alice Game" that is prominent in Rozen Maiden. Even though it does not refer to an actual character, it is the title of the ideal little girl. I have no information to prove it but I would bet money that Lewis Carroll's Alice had something to do with the choice of that name. |
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KyuuA4
 Posts: 1361 Location: America, where anime and manga can be made |
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And oddly enough, NONE of them have stayed true to the original Alice in Wonderland story.
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Polycell
Posts: 4623 |
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And? It not like western adaptations of things tend to be faithful. I don't even have to read the book to know that Disney screwed with the story somehow.
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