Forum - View topicLooking for fansub ethics/rationales for panels.
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Farix
 Posts: 152 |
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I'm back again looking to revise my set "ethical rationales" for my fansub ethics panel. This year, I've decided to fully include scanlations into the rationales.
For the last four years, I've been running this panel in various forms. The last couple of years, I've found that using these rationale help spur discussions and get the audience to think about their ethical standards and how they apply them. This time, I've been trying to reorganize, re-reorgaizing, and re-re-reorgaizing them from easiest to progressively harder. Following are examples of some of the rationales I'll be using for the panel 1. I'm never going to buy the series, so it is ok for me to watch the fansubs or read the scanlations of the series. 4. It is ok to watch/read an entire series on fansubs/scanlations so long as you have the intentions of buying the series when it is licensed/published. 6. The license for an anime or manga has expired or it is no longer available (ie. out of print). Therefore, it is ok to watch a fansub or read a scanlation of that series. 10. Most anime series that are streamed are not available for free until at least a week after their Japanese broadcast. Likewise, it takes several months to a year from when a manga is published in Japan to when the licensed version is published domestically. Therefore, fansubs and scanlations are acceptable alternatives to keep up with an anime or manga series as it is being broadcast or published. 13. I watch the licensed stream, so I am supporting the industry. But I also see no problem downloading a higher quality fansub for my own personal archive. After all, there may come a time when the licensed stream is no longer available and I want to rewatch the series. Again, I'm only looking for additional rationales that I can add to my list or reworded version of what I already have. Preferably some that are on the upper end of difficulty to address. [EDIT: Spelled the word you were looking for correctly. rational (adj.): agreeable to reason; reasonable; sensible: a rational plan for economic development. rationale (noun): the fundamental reason or reasons serving to account for something. -TK] |
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Mesonoxian Eve
Posts: 1858 |
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I hate to say this, but unlike last time, I won't be able to help you out this time. I haven't hit a fansub in quite some time thanks to the increasing number of series available on sites like CR, Netflix, and even Hulu, just to name a few.
While I do understand not every series is out there, I'm in no rush to see them given I've more than I can handle right now. There's always tomorrow and it seems Japan has recognized the R1's streaming base, even if the titles should be delayed (such as Puella Magi Madoka Magicka). I'm curious though: through your panel discussions, have you seen a drop in fansub usage since more anime's coming on viable sites? |
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walw6pK4Alo
 Posts: 9322 |
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Given that some streams are censored on CrunchyRoll and elsewhere, and the TV broadcast capture (transport streams used for fansubs) may be uncensored, I'd vastly prefer the better option. Queen's Blade Rebellion and So I Can't Be Perverted are some very recent examples. Of course, that's a series specific rationale, not for all series.
For videophiles and pedants, a common occurrence among us: fansubs have better bitrates or better compression than streams. This applies to fansubs versus streams only, as disc media is another matter. Last edited by walw6pK4Alo on Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:37 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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99. I don't accept the implicit assumption that there can be property rights in non-scarce intangibles or that violating laws of the state is an automatic evil. On the other hand, I value "supporting the industry" inasmuch as I want those who work in it to continue producing what I like and insofar as I appreciate what they have produced.
This said, I support the industry by buying DVDs/BDs, I don't really have an interest in the streams. There are several reasons for that including convenience, portability, censorship, and quality of service (lag/stuttering). |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 24299 |
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Rationales.
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st_owly
 Posts: 5234 Location: Edinburgh, Scotland |
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They're useful for sampling a series to see if you like it enough to want to buy it.
I'm not sure how much use this will be but I'm gonna throw it in anyway: I live in the UK and we don't get nearly as much stuff released here both in legal streaming and physical formats as R1 does. |
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Pixelationist
 Posts: 111 Location: London, UK |
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Crunchyroll licenses so much (even in the pitiful UK) that it's hard to find excuses theses days. Here's hoping that Anime on Demand dies soon so Crunchy can soak up all its shows.
Though I'm not going deny the part fansubs have played in my continued interest. Without it I am certain I would not be a fan today. |
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SereneChaos
 Posts: 384 Location: Middle of Nowhere, USA |
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OVAs or other extras are rarely legally streamed and sometimes left out of releases.
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Tris8
 Posts: 2114 Location: Where the rain is. |
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Rationales:
- I own the show, but I am at a friend's house and want to show them a certain scene/ep, so it is ok to look up the fansub because I already own it. - I pre-ordered this series, but I'm so excited I want to watch it right now and there are no legal streams. So fansubs are okay because I've bought it. - I don't like the way the sub and/or dub translated something so I'm going to watch a fansub with 'correct' terminology. As st_owly said, and the #1 reason I have watched fansubs: -I have no idea if I'll like this or not and don't want to invest X amount of money in the first disc only to discover I don't like this, so fansubs are ok for sampling. |
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Arkov
 Posts: 120 |
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-I'm a poor sonovabich right now, but when I become rich/god king ruler of the world, I'll make some donations.
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Farix
Posts: 152 |
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NP. That's one of the things I will touch on early in the panel as part of defining fansubs role now.
I haven't kept track of this in the past. But it is something I can easily ask the audience.
Do you think this will cover your statements? #9 The licensed version is a “bad version” (censorship/heavy editing, localization, bad translation, horrible voice acting, dubtitles, etc.). Therefore a fansub or scanlation is a legitimate alternative. Yes, I'm covering a lot of territory with that one, but I wanted to avoid having rationals that are closely related.
Hmm, I do have a rationale for when there is a 420p DVD only release, but the series was/is available in HD in Japan. Do you think I can work those two together or are they apples and oranges?
This panel will be in the US, so the "may be available in English, but not here" is a rather moot point. Maybe if I was doing a UK or Aussie version of the panel, it would be worth including.
Care to name a couple of examples? This would be a good one if I have a couple of examples to illustrate the point. The more recent the examples, the better. Also, do you think a series where only one or two seasons have be licensed (ex. xxxHolic, Nanoha) can be included in this rationale? And will this rationale only justify the unreleased parts of cover the entire series? Perhaps bring up both aspects is a good discussion point.
Is this based from experience? I cannot say that I've encountered this one before.
How much different is that one to #10 that I gave in my opening post? Is there a way you think I can reword the rationale to better describe the "impatient fan"? If I didn't address someones specific rationale, it is because I already have a version of it as part of my panel discussion points. |
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Tris8
Posts: 2114 Location: Where the rain is. |
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Errinundra
Moderator
 Posts: 6593 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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A recent example of an OVA is Kimi no Iru Machi. I'm an admirer of the director Yasuhiro Yoshiura who's best known for Time of Eve. Kimi no Iru Machi was released with two issues of the source manga (January and June this year if I recall) - unsubtitled, of course. Unless a person orders the manga from Japan and understands Japanese, it's a fansub or nothing. With Yasuhiro Yoshiura generally, most of his other works are viewable on Crunchyroll (members only in at least one instance) but, if you want your own copy, again fansubs come in handy. A classic example of an OVA where viewers must rely on fansubs is Legends of the Galactic Heroes, which has never been released anywhere with English subtitles. Having said all that, streaming is largely making fansubs redundant. |
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Kruszer
 Posts: 7994 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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Fansubs are useful if you want to see that one odd show that doesn't get picked up for streaming each season, but are mostly obsolete now since everything I want to watch out of the season is licensed and streamed by somebody now. Still some series I really like such as Real Drive, are not licensed and are only available to watch, fansubbed or not-legal streaming, so that's another good use for them.
Dogs: Bullets and Carnage and Denpa Teki na Kanojo are two supremely awesome OVAs that were released a while ago and have been thus far ignored by distributors. I probably could name a ton of others since I tend to watch a lot of OVAs. OVAs in general, not just those attached to series generally tend to get passed over. Last edited by Kruszer on Mon Jul 23, 2012 8:36 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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egoist
 Posts: 7762 |
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That's not the case here. We're talking about OVAs like an episode 00 or the extra episodes in Oreimo. So, complementary episodes that weren't streamed alongside the main series. So I'd say your best example here would be Oreimo. You'd better double check this since I'm not sure about numbers, but ANN had the right to air 12, while the season had 15. I believe the 3 extra episodes were something about a "true ending". Un-Go also had an extra episode of 40 minutes released a little after the TV series, which wasn't streamed. But I don't know if it was being streamed by something in the US. Highschool of the Dead which was a simulcast by TAN also had a little special after the TV series, which I believe wasn't streamed by TAN. |
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