View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
|
Mohawk52
Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
|
Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 3:17 pm
|
|
|
hkrok76 wrote: |
Mohawk52 wrote: |
hkrok76 wrote: |
Sometimes papa doesn't know best. |
But papa has the money. |
touche ^^
Although the trend in the states and probably around the world is to borrow some more from Japan, the problem I have is Japan being influenced by the US, in a manner that isn't natural. Perhaps they want them to use say...a rap as a theme song, when the Japanese creators would rather not, but since TW is giving them money, they have to. I just don't want stuff like that to happen. I am in no way saying that it will ofcourse, but I will be very weary. This isn't a matter of an american studio making something influenced by Anime. It's a matter of a Japanese studio being cajoled by America with money. I fear that. I hope Time Warner would let creativity reign. I hope with every ounce of my body. The Suits should not be allowed in the planning room. Give them money, and let the artists work. Ofcourse, the US could and should also contribute their own creative minds...but not ones that would wrap everything around thoughts of money over everything else. |
But isn't that the American (capitalist) way? The Japanese have been influenced by the US since 1945, so it's a bit late for that worry. Besides the Japanese like money too.
|
Back to top |
|
|
Kazuki-san
Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2251
Location: Houston, TX
|
Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 3:44 pm
|
|
|
Mohawk52 wrote: | ]But isn't that the American (capitalist) way? ![Laughing](/bbs/phpBB2/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif) The Japanese have been influenced by the US since 1945, so it's a bit late for that worry. Besides the Japanese like money too. |
It's not just our way after all. It's give and take. We invest money in them and they invest money in us.
|
Back to top |
|
|
Twage
Joined: 29 Jul 2003
Posts: 363
Location: North Bergen, NJ
|
Posted: Sat Feb 05, 2005 5:27 pm
|
|
|
I would actually love to see a collaborative effort, as long as it's American writers/artists and Japanese writers/artists working together, not American executives and Japanese writers/artists. The Animatrix was fantastic and fascinating.
|
Back to top |
|
|
Septeus7
Joined: 05 Aug 2003
Posts: 88
|
Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 7:11 pm
|
|
|
Nagisa wrote: |
And new stuff isn't higher quality by default. A shoestring budget is a shoestring budget, pardon me if they've just gotten lazier at hiding that fact..... However, this delusion that "animation in general is improving" is hilariously off the mark. TV animation is still limited, and is—for the most part—still pretty bad, to be honest (and OVAs especially have gone downhill; a lot of the recent stuff I've seen is only slightly better than TV-grade work). Just because it's been given "slicker packaging" with CG graphics doesn't change the fact that they're relying on sliding static cels, cutting the frame rate as much as possible, recycling footage, and hiring cheap artists that can't stay accurate to the proper character designs just as much as, in many cases moreso than, they have in the past. |
Excuse me but the newer stuff uses better technology which often makes it better quality by default. The reason "slicker packaging" looks slicker is because it a better product in terms of packaging. If you actually watch the old anime the colors are nowhere close to the newer stuff. The introduction of CGI has
changed the whole approach to the medium and as a result I would say the medium has matured. Please give us a nice example where a standard TV program of the past say Maison Ikkoku is better than its modern counter part say....Ai Yori Aoshi. Where is Maison Ikkoku better production wise? Anyone with eyes can see that the overall quality has improved in the aspects where the production technology has improved. I'm willing to go down the ANN encyclopedia series list from 1990 to 1995 and compare it every series from 2000-2005 to prove that you totally wrong. I honestly don't understand this irrational "Speed Racer has better production value than Intial D because its old" kind of argument.
Apparently Nagisa lives in a delusional world where did they not use sliding static cels, stock footage was invented after Pokemon, and cheap artists where nowhere to be found. You know the type... "it was better when I was watching Anime on a VHS fansub on its 100th viewing was real quality anime and the greatest animated work of all-time was "Snow White. Pixar is SATAN! And everything was better back in day...." Put a cork in it.
|
Back to top |
|
|
Nagisa
Moderator
Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Posts: 6128
Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh
|
Posted: Mon Feb 07, 2005 8:10 pm
|
|
|
Septeus7 wrote: | Excuse me but the newer stuff uses better technology which often makes it better quality by default. |
Better technology only shines when you apply the effort to make it shine. Last EXILE & Ghost in the Shell: Stand-Alone Complex clearly display that level of effort by their producers. Uta~Kata & Ah! My Goddess TV do not, and neither do most current anime. Too many simultaneous projects eating up time & money often resort to studios using the better technology as a crutch to rush the "same old shit" out the door quicker than to really make high-quality animation. Production's been streamlined, yes, but that really just means that it's been simplified to "mass produce" rather than push projects more to their true visual potential.
Was there "mass production" anime in the 90s? Yes, of course. But there wasn't nearly as much as there is now, nor was money being spread too thinly between simultaneous productions.
Septeus7 wrote: | Apparently Nagisa lives in a delusional world where did they not use sliding static cels, stock footage was invented after Pokemon, and cheap artists where nowhere to be found. |
Go back and read my last post. They certain did this stuff back then, but it wasn't...well...as glaringly obvious as it is now. Budget is budget, but hiding that "budget look" is a good thing to do. Shame that the producers of shows like Gundam SEED can't seem to do that, resulting in said show looking more like a Flash cartoon while older Gundam series look a touch more refined visually.
Septeus7 wrote: | Pixar is SATAN! |
Don't get me wrong; computer animation is an awesome concept when it's used properly. Pixar are the best at this, and they have yet to produce a single substandard production. But using computer-aided "animation" to cut financial corners is just sloppy. While there are the occasional works like Cowboy Bebop & Wolf's Rain where the use of computers to aid in animation is really effective, the average "joe normal" anime like (again) Gundam SEED or BECK looks like trash because of it. Then there are the shows like Witch Hunter Robin where you see "misappropriated" animation quality; the CG effects are pretty good, but the cel-based stuff is choppy, muddy, ugly crap.
Look, if you people want a prime example of what I'm talking about, check out Big O. Yeah, it's not as old as Septeus likes to think I'm referring to, but if you compare the first season (late 90s) to the second season (2000s), you definitely see a drop in quality. First season's a real visual treat, while the second season—despite looking better than 90% of its contemporaries—resorted to a lot more CG shortcuts and "polishing," resulting in a drop in the actual animation quality. More shows were being produced than in 1999, money was being spread over more projects than in 1999, and animation was generally more "economised" than in 1999.
|
Back to top |
|
|
hkrok76
Joined: 09 Jun 2003
Posts: 118
|
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 4:25 am
|
|
|
well...I heard a comment from a Japanese director who will be remain nameless that mentioned if a Japanese studio makes something that isn't necessarily for Japan, then motivation drops. Thus lowering quality. Considering Big-O 2 was pushed on by Cartoon Network...that could be one reason. I am in no way saying it is though. I am also very tired of the cg coloring they use these days. Miyazaki is known to dislike computer color because it can't get the exact red he wants. That's how I feel. Most of the shows these days come out looking like that...the colors just don't live like they used to. Ofcourse Cell animation did have it's faults as does cg animation, but you know what, I like either of them anyway.
That flash cartoon comment was funny...considering america seems to think it's the greatest thing since tex avery. I mean seriously....how can something that looks so....bleh....be so popular. It's because kids of no real sense...but that makes me even more sad. If kids grow up thinking mucha lucha is good animation...oh god, I fear for the future of US animation. I fear.
|
Back to top |
|
|
Mohawk52
Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
|
Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 6:53 am
|
|
|
hkrok76 wrote: |
That flash cartoon comment was funny...considering america seems to think it's the greatest thing since tex avery. I mean seriously....how can something that looks so....bleh....be so popular. It's because kids of no real sense...but that makes me even more sad. If kids grow up thinking mucha lucha is good animation...oh god, I fear for the future of US animation. I fear. |
. Well having grown up with the fare served by Hanna-Barbera, I'm none the worst for it. Don't get me wrong, there's nothing bad about Hanna-Barbera cartoons. They're good fun and not much cerebral investment is needed. They're great!..........for kids, just like Mucha Lucha. But when I first saw Star Blazers way back then, I just knew "this isn't like Top Cat".
|
Back to top |
|
|
|