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NEWS: NTUSA Re-Writes Challenged by Columnist


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Dirk Deppey



Joined: 06 Jan 2005
Posts: 7
Location: Tucson, AZ
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2005 3:23 am Reply with quote
tempest wrote:
Unfortunately this kind of practice is relatively common. Common enough that some staff at ANN questioned why we bothered reporting on it, "Everyone knows that the major magazines often dilute reviews, why bother writing about it, its not news" is a rough paraphrase of what I was told.


I can certainly vouch for this phenomenon in magazines devoted to Western comics and pop culture, so it doesn't surprise me that it's starting to rear its ugly head in manga and anime-related publications as well. Hell, at some point during the late 1980s/early 1990s -- I forget the exact date -- Marvel Comics pulled its advertising from the Comics Buyers Guide after a negative review of one of its books from then-editor Don Thompson. In response, Thompson publicly stated that he would only review Marvel books that he liked...

It's a fact of life under capitalism:Advertisers can speak with their wallets. The fact that the magazine that employs me is free to print laceratingly negative reviews about friend and foe alike is a full half of the reason for the "elitist swine" reputation we've developed over the years...
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deathbringer



Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 276
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2005 1:18 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Actually, he said "fails considerably", which means that it's not a total loss, thus validating the argument that it's at least satisfactory if not excellent.


I don't read it that way, nor would anyone I've ever met read it that way. "Fails considerably" to me means "Fails. A lot." I fail to see how that's not a total loss. If you had inserted a positive word there instead of "fails", like maybe "succeeds" I could see that argument, but not when it says "fails". And I've only ever heard tremendous used the way you're using it when it refers to a living thing. When it's used to describe a story or anything like that, it's pretty much always meant to be read in a positive light. I see absolutely no reason to change "too much" into "tremendous" unless you're trying to put a positive spin on it. And reading the two articles, it seems quite obvious to me that he did not like the book, while the rewritter apparently thought it not bad. Which doesn't really say much for it if you're completely rewritting someone's review to mean the opposite of what it originally said, and the best you can come up with is "just OK".
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Kazuki-san



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2251
Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2005 2:36 am Reply with quote
deathbringer wrote:

I don't read it that way, nor would anyone I've ever met read it that way. "Fails considerably" to me means "Fails. A lot."


And "Fails A lot" does not mean total failure that is not worth a look either. If it's a total failure, he would have just come and said "fails totaly". "Fails considerably" just means that it didn't deliver up to his expectations, but is not a total loss.

deathbringer wrote:
And I've only ever heard tremendous used the way you're using it when it refers to a living thing. When it's used to describe a story or anything like that, it's pretty much always meant to be read in a positive light. I see absolutely no reason to change "too much" into "tremendous" unless you're trying to put a positive spin on it.


Just because you read a positive spin on something does not mean it's there. The first definition of tremendous is "Extremely large in amount, extent, or degree; enormous." If I tell you I had a tremendous story to tell you, you may think I mean a great story, but that doesn't mean that's what I'm telling you.

deathbringer wrote:
And reading the two articles, it seems quite obvious to me that he did not like the book, while the rewritter apparently thought it not bad. Which doesn't really say much for it if you're completely rewritting someone's review to mean the opposite of what it originally said, and the best you can come up with is "just OK".

It's not obvious to me that the rewrite is that different then original. It IS different, but both of them say the same thing to me. It's interesting that you think the rewrite did a bad job of putting a positive spin on it when the best they could come up is "just ok." Maybe it's because they weren't really trying to? Ok, at best, means satisfactory and at worst means mediocre.
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deathbringer



Joined: 21 Aug 2004
Posts: 276
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2005 3:12 am Reply with quote
Kazuki-san wrote:
deathbringer wrote:

I don't read it that way, nor would anyone I've ever met read it that way. "Fails considerably" to me means "Fails. A lot."


And "Fails A lot" does not mean total failure that is not worth a look either. If it's a total failure, he would have just come and said "fails totaly". "Fails considerably" just means that it didn't deliver up to his expectations, but is not a total loss.


If I read that something failed a lot, that would be more then enough to keep me from ever buying it. I still can't see how people don't think it's not a total loss, it seems obvious to me how much the writer disliked the book, I don't usually run out right away and pick up all the new comics that get bad reviews.

deathbringer wrote:
And I've only ever heard tremendous used the way you're using it when it refers to a living thing. When it's used to describe a story or anything like that, it's pretty much always meant to be read in a positive light. I see absolutely no reason to change "too much" into "tremendous" unless you're trying to put a positive spin on it.


Kazuki-san wrote:
Just because you read a positive spin on something does not mean it's there. The first definition of tremendous is "Extremely large in amount, extent, or degree; enormous." If I tell you I had a tremendous story to tell you, you may think I mean a great story, but that doesn't mean that's what I'm telling you.


And then why wouldn't you just say " a long story"? See it sounds like you're trying to make it sound better then it actually was, by using a word that has more then one meaning and is usually associated with the positive definition, and by using a word that has more then one meaning seems like you're trying to justify it to yourself. "Can you tell me what the meaning of the word "is" is?" They could have said it had a "large" story or a "big" story, but they didn't. Why? Because neither of those make it sounds as good as "tremendous" does.

deathbringer wrote:
And reading the two articles, it seems quite obvious to me that he did not like the book, while the rewritter apparently thought it not bad. Which doesn't really say much for it if you're completely rewritting someone's review to mean the opposite of what it originally said, and the best you can come up with is "just OK".


Kazuki-san wrote:
It's not obvious to me that the rewrite is that different then original. It IS different, but both of them say the same thing to me. It's interesting that you think the rewrite did a bad job of putting a positive spin on it when the best they could come up is "just ok." Maybe it's because they weren't really trying to? Ok, at best, means satisfactory and at worst means mediocre.


It is obvious to the original writer of the article, and to me, and to quite a few other people obviously, otherwise there wouldn't be as many people that sympathize with him. And it was apparently obvious to the people at Newtype what he meant, otherwise there wouldn't have been a reason to do to his article what they did to it. But it's obvious to me that the writer did not even think the book was mediocre otherwise he would have said so, and probably wouldn't have had his article changed. The impression I got, and I'm sure many other people got from his original article was that the comic was not good, and certainly not worth wasting time and money on.
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Kazuki-san



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2251
Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2005 12:57 pm Reply with quote
deathbringer wrote:


It is obvious to the original writer of the article, and to me, and to quite a few other people obviously, otherwise there wouldn't be as many people that sympathize with him. And it was apparently obvious to the people at Newtype what he meant, otherwise there wouldn't have been a reason to do to his article what they did to it.


The are just as many people that see it differently as well. And sure, articles get rewritten all the time without signifigantly changing the meaning. My major gripe about this whole thing is that we only have portions of each review to compare with. While it may seem to some people that things were changed signifgantly in the passaged he quoted, what's in the rest of the review? Buying Newtype won't help, because I still wouldn't be able to compare it to the whole original. It's just like blurbs from critics about movie releases. Someone could write a review that said "Best movie ever, if you were sentenced to eternal damnation and this movie offered you a brief rest from the fires of hell," but all you would ever see is "Best movie ever." It's nice that he gave us the passages, but until I can compare both the whole original and whole rewritten article, I can't gave a strong opinion either way, because you must see the ENTIRE thing to see the context used.
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