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NEWS: Ghost in the Shell 2 DVD Replacement Program


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Tondog38



Joined: 13 Jan 2003
Posts: 89
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 5:21 pm Reply with quote
It's great that you guys were able to get this non-issue corrected, but I want to know when the language Nazis at Go Fish will re-issue this DVD with a dub! I hate not having a choice of language. Smile
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Tiresias



Joined: 14 Aug 2002
Posts: 353
Location: Illinois, USA
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 5:33 pm Reply with quote
Nope, even though it's not standard practice to have the English subs be closed captioned like their little notice said, it is in fact their standard practice not to dub foreign films. They haven't done one for Millenium Actress, they haven't and won't do one for GITS2, and more than likely they won't do one for Casshern when it comes out this summer. Deal with it.
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larmesdesucre



Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 11
Location: Ventura, CA, US
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 5:39 pm Reply with quote
Tondog38 wrote:
It's great that you guys were able to get this non-issue corrected, but I want to know when the language Nazis at Go Fish will re-issue this DVD with a dub! I hate not having a choice of language. Smile

On the contrary, that's a non-issue. Dreamworks should be praised for respecting the integrity of the original acting work under the direction of the film's creators by not degrading the film with a horrible English dub of their own doing. Same goes for their release of Millennium Actress. Thank god Manga Entertainment didn't have the rights to Innocence's American release, an hour and a half of having to listen to Richard Epcar and Crispin Freeman's attempts at being convincing actors. Outside of anime it's more difficult to find dubs, and even moreso outside of America, because the audience generally values the integrity of the original voicework done under the direction of the work's original creators. But disrespectful corporations like ADV have had no qualms about trying to commercialize, homogenize, and generally degrade anime so as to appeal to the lowest common denominator. The stupidest people become the core audience, and thus great Japanese works get turned into laughable piles of garbage with consistently mediocre English dubs. That's what you wanted for Innocence?
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IanC



Joined: 26 Sep 2004
Posts: 685
Location: Essex, England
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 5:55 pm Reply with quote
larmesdesucre wrote:

On the contrary, that's a non-issue. Dreamworks should be praised for respecting the integrity of the original acting work under the direction of the film's creators by not degrading the film with a horrible English dub of their own doing. Same goes for their release of Millennium Actress. Thank god Manga Entertainment didn't have the rights to Innocence's American release, an hour and a half of having to listen to Richard Epcar and Crispin Freeman's attempts at being convincing actors. Outside of anime it's more difficult to find dubs, and even moreso outside of America, because the audience generally values the integrity of the original voicework done under the direction of the work's original creators. But disrespectful corporations like ADV have had no qualms about trying to commercialize, homogenize, and generally degrade anime so as to appeal to the lowest common denominator. The stupidest people become the core audience, and thus great Japanese works get turned into laughable piles of garbage with consistently mediocre English dubs. That's what you wanted for Innocence?


This post has to be the funniset thing I've heard all day. Well it would be, if you didn't insult Crispin Freeman.....
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Kazuki-san



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2251
Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:08 pm Reply with quote
larmesdesucre wrote:
But disrespectful corporations like ADV have had no qualms about trying to commercialize, homogenize, and generally degrade anime so as to appeal to the lowest common denominator. The stupidest people become the core audience, and thus great Japanese works get turned into laughable piles of garbage with consistently mediocre English dubs. That's what you wanted for Innocence?


Do you have any examples to back up such big claims?
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larmesdesucre



Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 11
Location: Ventura, CA, US
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:16 pm Reply with quote
Kazuki-san wrote:
Do you have any examples to back up such big claims?

Gee, every dub ADV's ever done? From the days of Evangelion to more recent series like Rahxephon they've shown no effort to either respect the integrity of the work they publish or even produce a halfway decent culturally-transitioned product with passable acting talent. Publish as much as they can as quickly as they can to make as much money as possible without a care. I'm perplexed as to why you call it "big claims", I personally don't know anyone who thinks ADV's dubs are anything good. Then again, I see that you're in Houston, which suggests you may not be completely unbiased when it comes to ADV.
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Kazuki-san



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2251
Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:22 pm Reply with quote
larmesdesucre wrote:

Gee, every dub ADV's ever done? From the days of Evangelion to more recent series like Rahxephon they've shown no effort to either respect the integrity of the work they publish or even produce a halfway decent culturally-transitioned product. I'm perplexed as to why you call it "big claims", I personally don't know anyone who thinks ADV's dubs are anything good.


First off check this out. Second those are not specific examples of anything. What exactly in Eva or Rahxephon do you disagree with? Lastly, if you think any company can produce a dub word for word with the translation then you are deluding yourself. Words much be changed to fit lip flaps, according to what the Japanese licensor wants, etc. Did I mention the Japanese licensor also approves the dub scripts? If you want to state specific examples of how the integrity of one of their releases is not respected, then by all means do so, and I will go from there.

I don't see what me being in Houston has to do with anything. There are plenty of companies here that I do not like in the least. About the only way I would be biased is if I was on ADVs payroll, which I'm not.
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The Shade



Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 36
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 6:59 pm Reply with quote
To get back to the whole DVD replacement program that DW is offering, I'm going to ask a paranoid question: is the website legit, or is this some scam to get ahold of a lot of DVD of GitS2? I'm just saying that because the website address seems a bit strange to me.
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larmesdesucre



Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 11
Location: Ventura, CA, US
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:00 pm Reply with quote
"First off check this out."

Ah, the integrity of internet polls and the whims of the lowest common denominator. To quote yourself, "Those are not specific examples of anything." If popularity is the determining factor of what's good then by that logic Britney Spears is the greatest singer in the world.

"Second those are not specific examples of anything. What exactly in Eva or Rahxephon do you disagree with? Lastly, if you think any company can produce a dub word for word with the translation then you are deluding yourself. Words much be changed to fit lip flaps, according to what the Japanese licensor wants, etc. Did I mention the Japanese licensor also approves the dub scripts?"

I'm aware of all of that dear, I'm not some 14 year old that states opinions on subjects they know nothing about. Lip-flap doesn't prevent others from making a fairly literal dub or having decent voice acting, and so it's no excuse. Your Japanese licensor argument doesn't work as some backup to your claims that they're good either. The licensor is not the original director flying over to Houston to speak through a translator with the English dub team about how everything should be done. It's completely on a business level by that point and no longer in the realm of art, and so they'd rather just see things done quickly. The creation of the dub is still that of the American publisher, and after contracts are already made that said publisher will be the one to release the anime. In other words, its fate is already sealed.

"If you want to state specific examples of how the integrity of one of their releases is not respected, then by all means do so, and I will go from there."

Heh, if you really want to I guess we can do that via email, though I think it might be better if you could name the ones you think are actually good, and I am kind of curious. I'm sorry, but I have to confess, I never thought I'd be in an argument with someone trying to extol the virtues of ADV dubs. Not to mention in this discussion thread about Innocence where I merely used ADV as a prime example of bad dub work, because as I already said, to me personally it's just generally obvious with every show I've ever seen that they've dubbed, and I've never had a friend I talk to argue otherwise about it. I guess if you like your anime voice acting sounding similar to American children's cartoons when in English, then I can see how someone might like ADV's dubs.

This is not to mention that of course, the way with the best integrity to release a foreign language film or series in another country is to only subtitle it and not do a dub at all, which as Tiresias said is the standard practice in the industry, with anime being an anomaly. But ADV and other publishers known traditionally for anime do dubs of even some of the live-action foreign films they release.


Last edited by larmesdesucre on Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Kazuki-san



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2251
Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:33 pm Reply with quote
The Shade wrote:
To get back to the whole DVD replacement program that DW is offering, I'm going to ask a paranoid question: is the website legit, or is this some scam to get ahold of a lot of DVD of GitS2? I'm just saying that because the website address seems a bit strange to me.


No it's legit. You can also access the replacement form by going to http://www.gofishpictures.com/GITS2/main.html clicking on "the dvd" and then on "questions about your dvd?"

larmesdesucre wrote:

Ah, the integrity of internet polls and the whims of the lowest common denominator. To quote yourself, "Those are not specific examples of anything." If popularity is the determining factor of what's good then by that logic Britney Spears is the greatest singer in the world.


I was using that merely to counter your
"I personally don't know anyone who thinks ADV's dubs are anything good" statement.
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Tondog38



Joined: 13 Jan 2003
Posts: 89
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 7:46 pm Reply with quote
May I remind you of this article here at Anime News Network...
animenewsnetwork.com/columns/DubTrack.php?id=11
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The Shade



Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 36
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 8:44 pm Reply with quote
Kazuki-san wrote:
No it's legit. You can also access the replacement form by going to http://www.gofishpictures.com/GITS2/main.html clicking on "the dvd" and then on "questions about your dvd?"


Ah, thanks. Like I said, a bit paranoid on my part, but you never know.

I'm glad that DW is putting out a replacement disk. Even though the botched the initial release, it just goes to show what the power of fandom really can do.
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Sword of Whedon



Joined: 17 Sep 2003
Posts: 683
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 9:41 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
What exactly in Eva or Rahxephon do you disagree with?


Well, David Williams has even stated that he wishes he could go back and redub Eva...

That and Gainax told them it was entirely unacceptible and ADV told them it was too late and they'd already shipped it.
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larmesdesucre



Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 11
Location: Ventura, CA, US
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2005 10:08 pm Reply with quote
Sword of Whedon wrote:
Well, David Williams has even stated that he wishes he could go back and redub Eva...
That and Gainax told them it was entirely unacceptible and ADV told them it was too late and they'd already shipped it.

Which says a lot in itself about what a respectable company ADV is. And even besides their own dissatisfaction with it, I was taken aback when Kazuki asked what I didn't agree with about their dub of Eva.. because, well, holy hell, when you see something that good utterly ruined by such bad voice acting and adaptation, where you can't make it through most scenes without either cringing or laughing, it sticks with you in a bad way. Which is why I often cite that series as an example of bad dubbing, and why it surprised me when Kazuki wanted to defend it.

It's also unfortunate that ADV didn't do a new dub for the Eva Platinum series release, because that of course offered the best opportunity for them to do so. But at the same time it didn't surprise me because, come on, ADV spend money producing a new dub for a popular series when they've already got one, no matter how bad it is? Keep dreaming. On the third volume of the Platinum series there's an interview with Matt Greenfield and another slovenly-looking fat man whose name escapes me at the moment, in which they mentioned having considered actually doing a new dub for the Platinum series for various technical reasons. But they ended up going through a process of basically just cleaning up and remastering the original dub for Platinum, giving reasons like "people have an attachment to this dub", which for me just evokes the image of a parasite attached to a host. C'est la vie.
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Kazuki-san



Joined: 21 May 2004
Posts: 2251
Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2005 12:35 am Reply with quote
Sword of Whedon wrote:

Well, David Williams has even stated that he wishes he could go back and redub Eva...

That and Gainax told them it was entirely unacceptible and ADV told them it was too late and they'd already shipped it.


I'm not saying it's the best dub ever, hell it was one of the first ones they ever worked on. But this whole, ruining the integrity of the original stuff I just don't see. I'm also not sure where you are getting this "entirely unacceptible" thing. Gainax had a problem with how one particular line was translated, which they didn't catch until it had already shipped. That line was re-recorded for Plat.

larmesdesucre wrote:
It's also unfortunate that ADV didn't do a new dub for the Eva Platinum series release, because that of course offered the best opportunity for them to do so. But at the same time it didn't surprise me because, come on, ADV spend money producing a new dub for a popular series when they've already got one, no matter how bad it is?


It's true, people get attatched to the voices no matter what your opinion may be. In any case, if you think that's not a good reason, then by all means tell me why Manga went and got all of the original VAs they could find for the movies ehh? If you're going to lay blame for bad voice acting then it seems to me you aren't laying the blame everywhere it belongs.
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