Forum - View topicNEWS: Annie Awards Winners Announced
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Steventheeunuch
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That's part of the problem I have with series where they've gotten her, and it's obvious they're partially riding that sort of success because the music just seems... I dont know... out of place? Stealing the show? Sometimes (not always), the music doesn't actually work with the show, it works outside or ontop of it, bringing it to the level of a dull, poorly animated music video. This is kinda how I felt about Wolf's Rain. The music in Duck Dodgers isn't hugely amazing by any feat, but it works well with the given material, in the same sort of way I feel about Joe Hisashi's work on Miyazaki films. |
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Colonel Wolfe
 Posts: 370 |
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This really isn't surprising because the industry here in the United States is still biased against anime. While it would be nice that these award shows would tend to be fair I think that Hollywood and all of those award shows are still a mite spiteful against allowing a Japanese production series win such an award.
I believe Miyazaki is the one sole exception, since he's seen in the same spotlight as Akira Kurasawa. These are Japan's two greatest filmakers and creators and they have been recognized worldwide as masters of their craft. |
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Nionel
 Posts: 384 Location: Nebraska |
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Ya know, this is just one of those instances where the fans have to admit that the american stuff was better, it's not a crime nor is it the end of the world that no anime, or Yoko Kanno didn't get an award, there wasn't really any good anime being awarded for anything this year anyway, I mean Gits2 was mediocre and let's face it, there wasn't a single animated movie released last year that was as good as The Incredibles...
Personally, out of the winners on the list that I've seen/know anything about, I agree with all of them, except Spongbob getting best cartoon series |
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hkrok76
 Posts: 118 |
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i like how they had to split the television category after several years =P. The Simpsons just dominated until they split it into primetime and daytime television shows. I'm not surprised by any of the winners either. Yes, any american awards show is probably biased towards america, but you can't view that as a drawback of the award. Other countries have award shows of their own. It's their choice to award foreign films as well. The American award shows awarding american products is fine with me. You can maybe make an anime award show for the states if you want, until then, expect american award shows to award american products. Sad, but hey, we're americans so deal with it.
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MeggieMay
 Posts: 607 |
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Well I figured if anyone was going to beat Yoko Kanno it would be the person who did the music for Duck Dodgers. Duck Dodgers music is extremely well written and produced, so at least Ms. Kanno lost out to someone who's work was equally good.
Also, I read a lot of fans dissing the music to Wolf's Rain last year. Many who claimed to be big fans of Kanno complained that the music in Wolf's Rain was below par compared to her other works. I have to admit I thought her music for Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex was better than her score for Wolf's Rain, so just why it wasn't nominated over WR is a mystery to me  .
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bateszi
 Posts: 5 Location: Cambridge, UK |
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I wouldn't mind so much if these people weren't going around claiming to be the 'International Animated Film Society'. It's laughable that something like My Life As A Teenage Robot was nominated over an amazing production like Last Exile, but as you say, you're Americans. Yoko Kanno's Wolf's Rain score losing out to Duck Dodgers is not as much a disappointing decision as a rather disturbing sign that many are still refusing to accept anime for the quality that it is. |
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Akuma-chan
Posts: 5 |
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Yoko Kanno's music is something I've enjoyed quite a lot. I've purchased the sound tracks to .hack series', watched the openings to GitS and Legend of the Twilight just to hear it (I confess to not being a fan of either show =P).
While I haven't seen Wolf's Rain enough to be able to judge the music and how Yoko Kanno's work in that series is, but I can say that I don't think I've ever heard a Kanno song I didn't like. Akatsuki no Kuruma, from Gundam SEED, is possibly one of my favorite songs, and it's one of the ones she helped create, too. Now, I haven't either seen enough of Duck Dodgers to judge the music on that, but, who knows? Maybe it is better, though, I have to agree there may be a biasedness against anime from Americans judging it. Though, it would be nice to see something anime win again. Maybe next year we'll get lucky. |
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littlegreenwolf
 Posts: 4796 Location: Seattle, WA |
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Sorry that it's misled you, but Kaijura Yuki did the music to .hack. |
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Cloe
Moderator
 Posts: 2728 Location: Los Angeles, CA |
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You and I are in complete agreement. Anime fans often have a habit of, well, overreacting when things of this sort happen. "It's rigged," they all say. "The United States is biased against anime" [call me crazy, but isn't it just a teeny bit presumptuous to use the term "United States" in this situation? As if the country itself and EVERY PERSON IN IT is snubbing Japan...  ].
I'm sorry, but just because an anime film loses to an American animated film, it means the whole competition is rigged? Nonsense. What happens when an anime film DOES win? All of a sudden the judges are awarding based on merit? Or will the fans just rationalize that away as well? "Oh, well, that director's different--he's respected. Of COURSE they'd award him. But the Americans are still biased against anime!" Give me a break... Although the Annie judges pay closer attention to the quality of animation than, say, The Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, they still look at the quality of the storytelling, which is just as important. This, more than anything else, lost Innocence the awards. None of which it deserved anyway, except perhaps Animated Effects. And bateszi, what is so laughable about My Life As A Teenage Robot being nominated? Its production values are very high for a TV production and it's a clever show, often making references to Sci-Fi greats like Blade Runner and Issac Asimov. |
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SIr Franz
Posts: 3 |
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The Annie awards are biased towards american production but not just agenst Anime if you check the lists of nominations how many German, UK, Korean, or any other nation’s productions do you see? They should change there name to the American Market Animation Society to be fair.
Haru to Ashura
??? You must mean the environments and characters move fluidly because there is no way I watch animation just to see realistic character design and background. Secondly there are many shows with lower production values that draw in larger audiances then higher production value shows or movies just look at Disney’s last few movies (not pixar ones but studio productions). PS Spongbob must die. There is no way that show should have won an award (I haven't seen the movie so I can't say if it doesn’t deserve any.) My Life as a Teenage Robot is far better. |
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bateszi
Posts: 5 Location: Cambridge, UK |
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That was just an example of the type of show that has been pushed ahead of several, far superior anime series. I find it hard to believe that Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends deserves recognition ahead of say, Last Exile. Personally, Innocence not winning anything doesn't bother me at all. I haven't seen The Incredibles but it sounds like a better film. I'm not some raving fan who believes the Japanese can do no wrong. My main concern comes with the snubbing of Yoko Kanno; I rate her work (including the Wolf's Rain score) very highly and (just my opinion) to see her lose out to Duck Dodgers is a shocking decision on behalf of the so-called experts. |
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Tony K.
 SubscriberModerator  Posts: 11498 Location: Frisco, TX |
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I like her work in Wolf's Rain, but it was a bit too melancholy and times. And to be honest her favorite score to me is Cowboy Bebop. It's just so upbeat and really gets me going, and I haven't gotten tired of listening to any of those instrumental or vocal pieces yet. GitS: SAC is becoming a growing favorite, though. |
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Haru to Ashura
 Posts: 617 Location: Termina |
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You obviously know next to nothing about animation. Note that this post isn't only for you, but for the rest of the people who are whining about the Annies being biased. As for Disney, Disney traditional animation is the finest production quality in the world. The only companies that can compete are Studio Ghibli, Dreamworks Animation (ex: Prince Of Egypt), and Fox Animation Studios (ex: Anatasia) used to, but they shut down. Their last 2d theater animations were, I think, Home on the Range and The Jungle Book 2. Each ran over 20 frames per second, were completly computer colored, and Disney strives to keep their movie characters in 'constant motion.' That is, where the character is always moving, even if they're just talking. Not like in anime where they just draw a person standing there and only animate the mouth moving. Sorry, but I get really pissed when anime fans whine about Disney. Disney has set the standard for high-quality animation for over 50 years. That's HUGE. I like watching certain anime. But I know anime is nowhere near perfection, and fans need to get off their high horses and admit that. Simply put, I'd rather watch the Lion King or Alladin than Juuni Kokki, even if JK is one of my favorite anime. If you asked me which was better, I'd say the Lion King. It's the fault of the way the animation business in Japan is set up really, it's not that the animators are less talented. John over at animenation.com wrote up a really good article about this issue: http://www.animenation.net/news/askjohn.php?id=918 Also, the only reason that low quality production shows draw in large crowds is because very very few people, including most anime fans, don't know a thing about animation. Point and case: Rurouni Kenshin. |
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hkrok76
Posts: 118 |
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You're comparing feature lengths to what is pretty much television animation. Japanese television itself, as a whole, is pretty much funded with a lot less then what the US funds their mainstream television shows and features. So for quality of production, the US is usually on top. Almost always actually.
So for quality of animation, yes the US is pretty much on top. With more money, comes better quality. It's a truth of the industry. Less money means more outsourcing to lesser skilled studios. Ok, that's fine. Japanese television animation pretty much rose up from the idea of, "how the hell do we make this, and as cheaply as possible." The 3-cut animation that Tezuka and Mushipuro did was at such a lower "quality" then the Disney shorts and features. Yet, people liked it. Speed racer's animation quality is so bad, but I like that show. Why do people like shows with such low animation quality? It's not because they don't know a thing about animation. It's because they like everything else about it. Animation is ultimately a medium to tell a story. So people like the elements of that story. I mean, it's a film medium. Plot, setting, characters, direction, and sound(music, voice and sfx) all add to the enjoyment of a product. Because something doesn't have awesome animation quality doesn't mean it shouldn't be enjoyed. If the animation doesn't actually detract, then it's fine. Rurouni Kenshin has passable animation. That's fine with me. I liked the story, the characters, the music, and the setting. It's fun. NOw considering people were mainly complaining about the music, I don't see how them not knowing about animation has to do with music. My problem is that most people who say kanno should have won probably haven't seen or heard duck dodgers. Neither have I. Still, I like Kanno's music. I haven't actually listened to wolf's rain's bgm, but I'm sure it's pretty good. I haven't listened to Duck Dodger's music, but I'm sure it's also pretty good. Anime fans are biased towards anime, everyone else is biased towards anything else. The awards group should change their name. I'm sure there's worthy foreign animation from places other than Japan, but considering Wolf's Rain wasn't really a show from this past year, yet it was nominated this year....I doubt they really care about the rest of the world. I mean, the best animated show I have seen this year, IMO, has been paranoia agent. Everything about that show is gold. Yet...it probably won't be nominated until next year if at all...probably not at all. I don't really care about american award ceremonies. They pretty much award their friends IMO. So whatever. What I do not like, is people dismissing other's opinions by saying they don't know anything about it. Something might be a piece of glorious art, with geniusly applicated techniques, if I don't like it, it's still crap. Even if I don't know a thing about how the techniques are achieved. Ultimately, that's what any form of entertainment comes down to, do we like it or not? So saying, you can't judge animation because you don't know a thing about it, is not something I will accept as a valid argument. Disney has high, high, HIGH quality animation, yet if their story isn't at the same level of quality as their animation, it's a failed project. Disney has actually come out with consistently entertaining features, but I do say, I like a lot of anime a lot more. Ofcourse, Disney's features has always kicked their arse in quality of animation. Heck, the Hajime no Ippo movie was my favorite movie of the past two years....I admit that it's animation quality wasn't nearly as good as say....Lilo and Stitch...yet i did like Lilo and Stitch as well. Soooo, in the end. I don't care about american awards shows that misleadingly call themselves international when they obviously are not. Hell, I don't really take the Oscars seriously either. The only film awards I actually give a damn about are the foreign ones. Cannes, Berlin, Venice, and also the more Independent ones, Sundance, and other ones. They seem to like good movies, rather than expensive ones....Maybe someone down here can make an actual international animation awards ceremony....that'd be neat. [quote=Haru to Ashura]Also, the only reason that low quality production shows draw in large crowds is because very very few people, including most anime fans, don't know a thing about animation. Point and case: Rurouni Kenshin.[/quote] god...i'm sorry to keep hounding you about this, since I do agree with you to an extent with everything else. But this line is obnoxious. Telling people they like low quality production because they don't know better...that's just not kosher. You know, I don't think Family Guy is actually animated all that well, but I love that show. I'm not sure how many cuts they use, but considering most of the time people are just standing around...i think it would be a waste of money to use full animation...I still love that show. Last edited by hkrok76 on Thu Feb 03, 2005 1:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tony K.
Subscriber Moderator Posts: 11498 Location: Frisco, TX |
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Woah. I may not know everything about animation, but I do know Kenshin has low production values. And no, that's what drew me to it in the first place. The music and story/characters are what I enjoy the most. Animation is just about always at the bottom of the list, for me anyway. Although it certainly can help at times, more often than naught it doesn't really matter to me  .
Please don't assume that "most anime fans don't know a thing about animation" and that some of us are blindly throwing our fandom into something not up to whatever standards you're trying to justify are award winning  . Thank you.
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