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Lies, all lies I tell you! You are typing on a computer; you have access to anime rentals.

Ooh, where? My local store doesn't carry anything good, I haven't been able to rent anime in years. Where do they rent anime? (But not one of those monthly subscription things, those are a rip).

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You wouldnt be watching it on TV 'just like the japanese do' as they are watching it in japanese. It's a cruel world, I know, but you have to pay to get a sub.

No you don't, that's the beauty of it. The subs are freely provided. I watch the show for free, just like the Japanese do (unsubbed), only with subtitles provided by fans, for fans. Now, if I were watching a copy of the US DVD, subtitled with the intent to sell it, I could see your point.

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You'll just have to put up with a version edited to some degree, and with all of the commercials. That's the price of watching something for "free." Except you don't even feel you should do that.

When did I ever imply that? I fully intend to watch Naruto when it comes out on tv, just as I currently watch FMA, GitS, Yu Yu, DBGT, Yugioh, and even One Piece. I'm not not willing to wait, nor am I willing to accept the dub as the ONLY version I watch. At one point I was at three separate points in Naruto, having watched the show up to the early Chunnin exams, read the manga scannilated up to the early Sound 4 arc, and I was also reading the Shonen Jump version which was at the Zabusa arc at the time.

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Even the Japanese pay to watch anime on TV. Either 1. by watching the advertising or 2. by paying for satellite channels.

I'd love to watch the advertising. Those things are a hoot. Sadly it's not an option for me. And I do pay for the sattelite channels, by way of my own cable TV and Internet bills, which are essentially an equivalent thing.

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Not eating them is different from stealing a case of peas because you think they are too expensive.

And watching fansubbed anime is different than stealing a case of peas, because if you steal a case of peas, then nobody is going to buy that case of peas, whereas with the anime, there's no product being taken that WOULD have otherwise had money spent on it (certainly not be me), so where's the loss?

Most "anti-fansub" people work on the idea that even a fraction of fansub viewers were without fansubs, that they would instead buy everything that they watch fansubs of. Obviously that's bull. As You said yourself, SOME people buy Caddys, for whatever reason. Those are the people who currently have ginormous collection of offically produced US anime DVDs. There are also millions of other people in the US that DON'T buy caddys, for whatever reason, but still want a car of some kind to drive around in. Those are the fansub people. Not everybody can just go pick up a caddy just because they want one.

Same old same old.

Fansub lovers repeat their delusions about how they have every right in the world to be watching anime for free.

Fansub haters repeat their delusions about how the anime world would suddenly be a better place if fansub's no longer existed.

Not that there's no truth to either side, or that there aren't a few interesting things being said, but neither side is actually listening to the other, they're just looking for ways to make their same old point once again.

Nothing new is being said, and no-one is being convinced of anything.

Locked.