Forum - View topicNEWS: Department of Justice Files Suit Over Comics Scan Site
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Sunday Silence
 Posts: 2047 |
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But what the companies are doing is also immoral. Another word please? |
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LordRedhand
 Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
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So what going up to an author, signing a contract/asking permission, paying said author and distributing the authors work with their permission is wrong?
Wow I don't think you honestly have a comparison. One groups respects the author and their wishes and if the author feels like getting a bad deal has the ability to go with someone else/on their own, compared to the other who will not listen to the artists wishes, will not pay them for their efforts, and regardless of how the artists wishes of their work being distributed it has to be their way or not at all. [sarcasm] So yes I can see how they are both immoral and wrong.... [/sarcasm] not. |
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Sunday Silence
Posts: 2047 |
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Howabout not giving what the customer base wants? |
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agila61
 Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
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The ethics there are if the potential (actual) customer does not get what they want, they are under no compulsion to buy. In return, they do not consume the product. There is nothing morally wrong with putting out a crappy product that nobody wants to buy, as long as there is no deception involved and the crappiness of the product does not cause health and safety problems. There is, by the same token, nothing morally wrong about refusing to buy a perfectly good product based on some imagined grudge with some person or group involved in the product. The morals or ethics on the supply side come into it when there is deception, or when there are health and safety problems caused by the crappiness of the product, as opposed to just customer unhappiness. And the morals or ethics on the demand side come into it when the choice is made to consume a copy of someone else's work without permission, despite the fact that the person who did the work is entitled to grant or deny the right to make a copy. |
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hissatsu01
 Posts: 963 Location: NYC |
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I believe this is known as the Waaaaahhhh! justification. They don't give me what I want so they're immoral. An ironclad piece of reasoning if ever there was one. |
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Charred Knight
 Posts: 3085 |
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But here's the thing NO ONE IS BUYING ANIME! The anime market is in decline, what you are doing is making it worse, You have been lied to so some guy named Jackie could make 50,000 dollars while you are left penniless. They look for gullible people like yourself who will believe what their told so that they can profit from it. You are not the savior of the anime business you are it's killer. Funimation streams most of it's titles on the internet like both Fullmetal Alchemist, so what's your excuse? What possible excuse could you give me for depriving the last hope of the anime business in America of money? |
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Sunday Silence
Posts: 2047 |
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At this point, I think we're at the "Agree to disagree" stage where both sides aren't gonna sway the other side no matter what. Entire thread wise at least. Last edited by Sunday Silence on Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:20 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Fanofde4ever
Posts: 29 |
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There's this thing called a recession. Maybe you've heard of it? We happen to be in one. You ever thought maybe the reason sales have dropped is nobody has the extra money to buy themselves, or their kids anime? Especially at $20 and up for 4 episodes. Jackie didn't lie to me. Hell I didn't even know his name till I had already been staff on the site for 6 months. Nobody is bribed, or lied to when they are brought on. We make a thread in the announcements section saying we need help, and there are openings. Generally we get 10 times as many volunteers as there are staff we want to add, and that's with nothing more than this (copied straight from the original post in one of the threads):
And if Funimation is streaming the episodes, for free, on their site how is ZOMG doing the same thing destroying the industry? Going back to your Ford analogy that's the equivalent of saying Ford can give you a car, but if I give you a car the automobile industry is gonna collapse. And I knew I wasn't gonna get payed when I started there. I thought I made it clear earlier that I asked if I could help with the site. It actually gets on my nerves when people say they want to help, then ask how much they get payed. I really couldn't care less how much Jackie makes off of the site. You seem to think you know a lot more about the way the sites are run than you do. |
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Charred Knight
Posts: 3085 |
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The recession happened years after the collapse of sales. We already went over this in the other thread. The collapse went from 2004-2008. The recession hit in late 2007 by that time anime sales had dropped by a third.
Read this that Agila posted in the other thread, it talks about how anime had lost a third of the business before the recession had even started. animenewsnetwork.com/convention/2007/state-of-the-anime-industry If your going to argue with me please pay attention and maybe just maybe instead of telling people to watch FMA so some guy named Jackie can buy himself a car, you can tell them to watch it on Funimation's channel so that Funimation can bring more anime over, theirfore increasing the amount of liscenses so money goes back to Japan, so money can be used to make more anime, and maybe just maybe anime can actually be saved. As for your analogy, if your giving a person a car? No, the sutomobile industry is not going to collapse, if your giving hundreds of thousands of free cars and some other guy is giving away millions of cars, then yeah the automobile industry is going to collapse.
You haven't given me a reason to agree with you. You and the rest of the people on your side have done nothing but give excuses, and made claims that have been shown to be false (such as the recession claim) |
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Fanofde4ever
Posts: 29 |
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Ok now how can a site that has only been IN EXISTENCE since November 07 contribute to the decline of sales beginning in 04? Hell the site was only made 1 month before that article was posted. And you said Funimation was streaming most of their series on their site for free. How does them streaming it for free make them more money than us streaming it for free? Hence my "me giving you a car vs. them giving you a car" analogy. So who was it that needed to pay attention again? And he said "agree to disagree". That means admit we're never gonna see eye to eye just so you know. It's not admitting the other side is right. |
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Charred Knight
Posts: 3085 |
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I didn't blame Jackie's website, I blamed the fact that fansubs make it so that no one is conditioned to buy the product. Jackie's website is just a new step in that direction.
As for how funimation streaming makes them money while your's does not. ADVERTISING! They make money off of advertisments! Did you think that Funimation was to stupid to put advertisements on their streaming? It also creates a relationship with Funimation much like your relationship with Jackie's website. |
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Guardsman Bass
 Posts: 158 |
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No. It's breaking the law, which is not the same thing as "immoral". Like I said, copyright protection is not some fundamental "right" - it was created a tool to hopefully promote further creation in the arts and sciences.
They're forcing the authors to deal with the emerging market as it is. If they don't like it, they can always just quit making manga and go find a day job.
. . . . Are you serious? The buyers aren't "forcing" Ford to do anything other than actually meet the demand that their market has for cars. Ford could decide they don't want to do that - and go out of business. Same for the mangakas, and same for just about anything other business under the sun.
Good question. If either of us figures that out for sure, we'll be rich. |
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RestLessone
 Posts: 1426 Location: New York |
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Funimation acquires rights from Japan first, so it's legal, and they stick ads on their videos. Also, they make people aware of where to buy their releases; if you're watching a series online, to the right of the screen includes a link to where you can buy the particular set the episode is included in or buy the individual episode. The Youtube ones have a link in the description, I believe. |
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Charred Knight
Posts: 3085 |
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My point is that if you have no idea how to fix it then what are you constantly bitching about. The reason i support the manga and anime companies in this is because I don't see how legal translated anime/manga can compete with sites like One Manga that the person didn't pay for the rights,. It's like trying to win a marathon where the other runner is in a car. Personally I feel that manga and anime are doomed, it's only a matter of time before the Japanese stop caring, and the gravy train is over. |
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Guardsman Bass
Posts: 158 |
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I was simply pointing out that it was inevitable, and that the manga and anime companies really need to be throwing their energies into trying to see if some type of online method was profitable - as opposed to trying to force everyone to buy books. They finally, finally seem to be in the process of setting this up - long after the rise of the major aggregator sites, and even after anime had gone streaming in legitimate channels. There's no real excuse for that type of foot-dragging, not if they don't want to eventually lose much of their foreign markets for their stuff, and not when streaming manga is a bloody cakewalk compared to streaming anime a la Crunchyroll and Funimation.
I can think of two things they could offer that the aggregators really can't. The first is speed of release. The scanlators have to wait for the RAWs to turn up, whereas the streaming channel can simply time it to come out simultaneously with the on-paper release in Japan. The second is reliability - namely, the guarantee that unless a series is discontinued, that chapter will be out every wednesday for you to view. It's not a problem with giant mangas like Naruto and Bleach (both of which have multiple scanlation groups in different languages), but it sure as hell is a problem with smaller stuff, where you've often got a supply bottleneck because only one translator/scanlator is working on it. Look at Liar Game, for example. There were some huge stretches of time when nobody was scanlating the increasingly large pile of RAWs that were showing up. That's murder for a potential fandom. More generally, I think you're being unduly pessimistic. People pirate music all the time, for example, but that hasn't put iTunes or the streaming sites (like Pandora) out of business, now has it? |
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