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Women in anime.

As far as anime goes, two series that I don't think I've seen mentioned here that I think sport some pretty strong female leads are Nodame Cantabile and Planetes.

Fee Carmichael from Planetes is strong willed without being a Green Beret ~ even Ai Tanabe, though a bit more traditional lead character, has more depth to her than appears at first.

dtm42 wrote:

Psycho 101 wrote: Where does he act like it? He isn't condescending towards her unlike some other masters. When he insists of doing her job, even though she is the best one who can do it. You can argue that he wasn't intentionally being sexist and condescending all you like, and you may be right. But subconsciously, he thought that she shouldn't fight, nor should she be given the choice to fight if he has any say. She told him she wished to fight, and he ignored her for quite a long time. Nice. He is sexist. To deny it is to deny the truth.

Ok for starters the fact she is the best one is not evident from day 1. She had to work up to that. If Gilgamesh, or even arguably Berserker, showed up on day 1 she'd be a grease stain on the floor. And of course he ignored her will to fight because he cared about her. No one willingly lets someone they care about go fight and risk their lives without having an issue with it. Again the idea of sexism vs chivalry is all about attitude and intention. He was not trying to be sexist nor take away her free will. He was trying to do all he could to keep someone he cared about safe. If you see that as sexist then that's just sad.

I don't get that same attitude, "I don't need no man" as you stated, from Shurrei.

...but I never want to hear from anyone that I can not do something purely because I'm a woman.

1. Early, women were portrayed more as heroines. Respectable. Now woman are either portrayed as whiny horny sluts or as pretentious girls who have a smug sense of superiority.

2. Uh most anime degrades women period. Not debatable and a feminist would have a ball. I mean you have your good female characters, but often anime likes to give their female characters faults. Most common ones are they are weak, mentally weak, not self-sufficient, refrigerator syndrome...

Oh and then there is the common notion that women are helpless without their male counterpart. You and I could easily name 10 characters similar to Naruto. However, can you just as easily name 10 female characters that have the same traits as Naruto? I could not. I would have to actually do research. Hmm I guess the Miyazaki female characters portray a good image of women. Chihiro, San, and Sophie

Also, Japan has this idea that women must chase men. Never the opposite. Well, I think its obvious that's not how it works here.

Psycho 101 wrote:

dtm42 wrote: Psycho 101 wrote: Where does he act like it? He isn't condescending towards her unlike some other masters. When he insists of doing her job, even though she is the best one who can do it. You can argue that he wasn't intentionally being sexist and condescending all you like, and you may be right. But subconsciously, he thought that she shouldn't fight, nor should she be given the choice to fight if he has any say. She told him she wished to fight, and he ignored her for quite a long time. Nice. He is sexist. To deny it is to deny the truth. Ok for starters the fact she is the best one is not evident from day 1. She had to work up to that. If Gilgamesh, or even arguably Berserker, showed up on day 1 she'd be a grease stain on the floor. And of course he ignored her will to fight because he cared about her. No one willingly lets someone they care about go fight and risk their lives without having an issue with it. Again the idea of sexism vs chivalry is all about attitude and intention. He was not trying to be sexist nor take away her free will. He was trying to do all he could to keep someone he cared about safe. If you see that as sexist then that's just sad.

While she may not have immediately been a better fighter than Berserker or Gilgamesh, she was leagues beyond Shiro in skill and capability, plus if she died, her death would not be permanent, whereas Shiro had no reason to believe his wouldn't be. His supposedly valiant sacrifice would be utterly pointless. And why exactly is his immediate assumption be that he needs to protect someone whose role he knows is to protect him? He treats none of the male characters the way he treats the female characters - like they are fragile creatures in constant need of someone to look out for them. Chivalry isn't noble if you're being condescending to the recipient of your intended protection.

Wait, wasn't Saber severely weakened and handicapped in the anime/Fate route? As in, "If she fights too hard she actually will DIE". I'd say Shriou has every right to want to protect her or keep her out of harms way. He doesn't exihibit this behaviour at all in the UBW/HF routes of the game, in which Saber is at her full power, nor at Rin at any point since she too can hold her own in a fight.

Saber is the kind of person that would attempt spoiler[a solo assault on an enemy fortress while underpowered and injured]. In short, an arrogant moron. Shiro is also an idiot with no sense of self preservation and a hero complex. They both needed to protect each other and be be protected from their own stupidity. That's equality not sexism.

Wait, wasn't Saber severely weakened and handicapped in the anime/Fate route? As in, "If she fights too hard she actually will DIE". I'd say Shriou has every right to want to protect her or keep her out of harms way. He doesn't exihibit this behaviour at all in the UBW/HF routes of the game, in which Saber is at her full power, nor at Rin at any point since she too can hold her own in a fight.

Shenl742 wrote:

Wait, wasn't Saber severely weakened and handicapped in the anime/Fate route? As in, "If she fights too hard she actually will DIE". I'd say Shriou has every right to want to protect her or keep her out of harms way. He doesn't exihibit this behaviour at all in the UBW/HF routes of the game, in which Saber is at her full power, nor at Rin at any point since she too can hold her own in a fight.

I haven't played the game, so I wouldn't know, but even weakened, Saber is still significantly stronger than Shiro, and the only reason he doesn't die (more than once) is because of a factor he isn't even aware of. In which case his whole chivalry routine would have been pointless because he would have failed to protect Saber.

It's not really an issue that Saber is stronger than Shirou, it's that Shirou wants to keep Saber out of harms way and risky battles as much as possible.