Forum - View topicBonding with an anime series ... or not.
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 24167 |
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The idea for this thread came to me as a result of a somewhat bizarre reaction I'm having to Cowboy Bebop. I've never had this kind of reaction before to an anime before. In a nutshell, I am admiring and respecting CB on an intellectual level...
...but I cannot for the life me actually enjoy it. I can fully understand why it is considered an anime classic. But I don't really like it. I've tried to puzzle out why I feel this way about a series that, on paper at least, seems like it should be one of my favourites. I can be specific about a few things, but collectively they don't seem to fully explain my lack of attachment. I'm not crazy about Spike's character design, nor do I particularly like his "strong-silent" persona. I'm not a huge fan of bluesy music of which CB has a fair amount. Ed's dubbed voice kinda bugs me. But those alone should not be keeping me at bay. The animation is top-notch and interesting, the story-telling is fairly inventive, I like hard SF elements...WHY DO I NOT LIKE THIS SHOW??? In the end, all I can come up with is that I haven't been able to "bond" with the show. There are several obviously lesser shows that I would want to re-watch before giving CB another shot. And I will give it another shot, although it will probably be years from now. Anybody else experience this bonding issue - for example, liking a show more than "objectively" you should have and can't really explain why? Or, like me, fail to bond with a show that normally you would expect you would have? |
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Zin5ki
 Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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This matter may be somewhat straightforward. It seems that the show in question acts a counterexample to what you understand of your own tastes, insofar as some of the reactions you expected (as an inference from your past habits) simply didn't occur when watching. Perhaps you now need to reassess what you're able to avow of your own preferences: from the fact that a given anime exhibits hard sci-fi elements and lavish animation et cetera, it would perhaps be prudent to deny that you can expect to enjoy it from this information alone. There may be other requirements of series that are successful in this regard, to which your attention may now need to turn.
Put in more positive terms, what has occurred is nothing to be dismayed by. Far from it: you've learned a little more about yourself. |
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RHachicho
 Posts: 897 Location: Essex, UK |
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Oh definately mine was Gundam Wing. I have watched several Gundam series and loved them. The main characters at the very least didn't annoy me. The mecha where cool. The fights where good. The introspection on the nature of war is a subject I enjoy. Nevertheless I found it just plain BORING
 . I just couldn't bring myself to care about any of the characters. I think that the process of bonding with an Anime as you put it is extremely subtle more subtle than we ourselved understand. Maybe there is something in CbBp that jars with something in your subconciouss or something. Or maybe things just don't click. It was also the same for me with NGE. Despite having the clear off putter that I personally Did not like Shinji it is not so vehemant that I should not have been able to finish the series. Yet after episode 12 I gave up on it.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 24167 |
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@ Zin5ki - Ah, but that is exactly what does dismay me - I actually don't think I've learned anything about my tastes (beyond the fact that simply because a show has elements I like doesn't mean I'll automatically like it - but I already knew that).
No my frustration stems from the fact that I cannot put in cogent terms why CB isn't working for me. It would be so much easier if I could simply dismiss it as over-rated, or whatever. Oh well, I guess there are worse problems to have! 
I think you may be onto something there... |
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Zin5ki
Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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Be that the case, perhaps we could express your problem as follows: You are not aware of the characteristics Cowboy Bebop lacks, but which series somehow similar to it possess, whereby the presence of such characteristics (as I have called them) usually produce a favourable reaction.
Are these the things you strive to identify? |
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kilaria
 Posts: 135 Location: Dallas, TX |
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It's funny that you bring up this topic, especially with Cowboy Bebop as the example because that is EXACTLY how I felt about the series. I recognized that it was a great series, everything about it well done, unique, and just all around good... but it never 'clicked' with me on an emotional level. This is why I rated it as 'excellent' instead of a 'masterpiece'.
Sometimes I wonder if it has to do with our current mood at the time of watching? Perhaps it is something on a subconsious level that prevents us from being able to bond with the series when mentally we feel that we should have. In a way.. for some reason you're heart just isn't in it at the time. That's why in these cases it's always good go rewatch the show sometime later on and see if your feeling about it changes. It's been about a year since I watched cowboy bebop and I plan on taking another look at it sometime soon. Who knows, maybe I'll fall in love with it next time. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 24167 |
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I guess. I don't think CB is necessarily lacking anything, I'd just like to have a better idea why it's not working for me. @ kilaria - too funny we have had the same reaction to CB. Mood may play a factor, except that I've been trying to watch the series over a period of several months (I'm finally down to the last few episodes), so it can't really account for my reaction. (Unless I just wasn't in the right mood for the all important first few episodes and that feeling just stuck with me through the intervening months - again, goes back to the concept of bonding - it either happens or it doesn't and it's not always clear why it does/doesn't.) |
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Mister V
 Posts: 1000 |
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It's not that weird, when you think about it.
There's liking a show, and respecting it because of its classic status. Liking involves some kind of emotional bond with characters (at least for me, primarily). Do I have that with, say, Lain? Hell, no. Do I respect it? Of course, and I can enjoy it, too, it just isn't likely to appear on any re-watch lists I might make. |
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm guessing it's because the chemistry of an ecchi show (you consider good) is missing. There's no way CB will ever attain this, and I suspect this is the reason. The other hints come from the titles you've already sold/traded, including the one to me. I'm not saying you require ecchi itself, just the chemistry. In most of your favorite series, you prefer those which feature Faye-like girls, but risque because they can be, not that they have to be. This "strong female lead" seems to be your preference and if there's a "physical" attraction, this just helps the bond secure itself. Try watching the Cowboy Bebop movie. With a little less Spike and a little more Jett and Faye, you may find yourself appreciating it, especially given its 90 minute length. If you enjoy the movie (and I think you will because of another character I won't mention), I believe we'll have found your answer for sure. As for the topic, I absolutely can not bond with a show featuring the "stalker" lead, regardless of sex. The portrayal of this character never comes off as comedic, but rather insulting to the viewers. There's only so much "I think I'll try and snag her panties" or "OMG! OMG! He looked at me!" we can take, and when it's done poorly, it's aggravating. The rub is the story itself can be decent. Suzuka is a good example. Great story, suck-ass leads. Oh well. It's anime. What can you do. |
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The King of Harts
 Posts: 6712 Location: Mount Crawford, Virginia |
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Urg  I am not a fan of that line of thinking. I find it so odd that people feel like they're obligated to at least respect a show because others like it. My personal example is Capitan Tylor: I find the The Irresponsible Captain Tylor to be subpar at it's best moments and because of that I will NEVER see it as a classic like so many others do. I cannot in good consience say I respect a show I didn't enjoy. I have 185 (out of 238) other anime titles rated higher than Tylor, and yet I'm supposed to give props to this one because it has some kind of "classic status". PISH POSH APPLESAUCE!
Afraid is the wrong word, but it's the best I can up with for right now. Blood-, it sounds like to me that you're just afraid to admit that you don't like Cowboy Bebop because it has "classic status". It's not like Watanabe is gonna fly to your house, hog tie you, wreck your shelves, and then revoke your license to watch anime all while Yoko Kano beats you with an aluminum bat. You don't need to try and force yourself to "see the good" in a show you're not enjoying. |
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Guardsman Bass
 Posts: 158 |
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It's not just you. Usually what gets me interested in following an anime after the first episode I watch is whether or not I "click" with the characters, becoming interested in their development, progress, and fate. If that doesn't happen, I'll usually stop following the anime. The only exceptions tend to be when I really want to see how it ends. In the case of Cowboy Bebop, I personally clicked with the characters, but I can see how others might not do so. To each his own - and there is plenty of stuff where I didn't "click" with the characters. Ouran High School Host Club comes to mind, for example. |
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zawa113
 Posts: 7358 |
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I tend to have difficulty finishing a show unless I really bond with at least one aspect of it (usually characters, I need to start to feel a bond with at least one character to really want to continue). It's why I finally just dropped Hell Girl despite being like 20 episodes in, I bonded with absolutely nothing in the show, not a single character or a single concept. For example, I didn't quite bond to Ginko in Mushi-shi, but I did bond to the mushi themselves, even if there was a new one every episode. But for Hell Girl, it's like there was nothing for me to bond with, not the mystery, certainly none of the characters, not the idea of revenge, it was just nothing for me and I finally dropped it. I only got to episode 20 or for the same reason I am able to sit through all of physics this semester: I was doing something else at the same time, like playing DS or prancing about on the internets.
I seriously think I have the inability to watch something all the way through just because it's pretty so that won't work either. I bonded big time with Robotech, Rick started it, those three Zentraedi on the ship totally won me over, and Minmei....didn't kill it for me, I think she was used sparingly enough. Even then I bonded with much more than the characters, I also bonded with the entire story set up and to some degree the ship itself I think. The whole society really. Obviously, this isn't a super pretty series, there was one scene where Max and Miriya fight where the animation is at its absolute worst in the series and I can't take it seriously for an instant during that time and the music is like....80s charming, but I don't call most 80s music good either. But everything else, barring Minmei, really got to me, it made it really fun to watch. It's like the more things I bond with, the more fun I have watching any given series. On the other side of things, Xam'd is beautiful but I also dropped that about 4 eps before the end. Now the concept of the Xam'd kinda had me in the first half, but the really seemed to drop that point or not carry it out fully in the second half and it un-bonded with me. Free from my covalent bond, I fled the single Carbon atom and ran over to a Butane newly forming and bonded with it instead. Sure, the butane wasn't quite as pretty as that single methane atom, nowhere near as pretty in fact and nor was its voice half as sexy, but omg, I'm near 4 Carbon atoms now and I like them all, who cares if they're a little ugly? So yeah, a bond based solely on looks isn't likely to be very stable with me. It's likely to be a radioactive Carbon trying to trick me, it will destroy itself and turn into a Nitrogen atom and I don't wanna bond with that, I like Carbons, thank you very much. Way to chase me off by putting graphics in front of story and characters for priority, jerks! Or suck me in then change your mind and mess yourself up, it's bad either way, but unbonding is even more painful cus at first it seemed worthy of watch, but it really wasn't *sniff* |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 24167 |
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@ PetrifiedJello - interesting hypothesis. What militates against it, is that there have been other shows I liked a lot that didn't have the ecchi-style bonding you refer to, either. I like Faye's character and dub a lot, but it's true her actual character design doesn't do much for me.
@ KoH - I can see where you might think I'd be influenced by the show's rep, but I really don't believe that to be the case. I have no problem going against the grain, especially if I have specific points to back my opinion up. I'd love to be able to say, "You know what - CB is an over-rated piece o'crap and here's why..." But I genuinely don't feel that way. I'm just ain't feelin' the love, is all. |
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Kruszer
 Posts: 7994 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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One that comes to mind for me was the series your user name comes from, Blood+. It's well liked and well known and has many things that I like in a series, yet I just did not enjoy the show as much as some people do. I did however, like it more than the movie for it's improved characterization, expanded universe, and longer length.
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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I would certainly hope so, because liking only "one kind of anime" would be... *shivers* Okay, how about a quick little test: If you were to swap out characters, would this change your opinion of the show? I have to say, I've never really figured out what you enjoy about anime (besides the ecchi series you proudly state you like), but these series also don't get the same proud statement. I believed you liked the Haruhi series, but I don't think you liked the Haruhi series. Yet Time of Eve you really enjoyed. That's a very wide and difficult range to narrow your tastes down to. Another series example would be The Third, a series you ditched even after stating you liked it. I would suspect this one also shared that "non-bonding" element as well. |
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