Forum - View topicBest Supporting Character Tournament: Post-Mortem
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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Group D-29
Kuu, Haibane Renmei vs. Tanda, Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit Voting for: Tanda Because: I feel bad about not voting for Kuu here, but I believe that Tanda has more breadth of character. Group D-30 Ami Kawashima, Toradora! vs. Akio Furukawa, Clannad franchise Voting for: Ami Because: A tough call here, as both are very solid characters, and while Akio may be a little more (successfully) influential to the protagonists than Ami, as a viewer, I found Ami more consistently engaging. |
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TheTheory
 Posts: 1029 Location: Central PA |
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[quote="Megiddo"]Group D-29
Kuu, Haibane Renmei vs. Tanda, Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit You may say my argument here is irrelevant. I don't really care. For me, this match-up boils down to one crucial point: I really, really don't like Tanda. I begrudgingly voted for him several times already (and gleefully voted against him just as many times), and admit that he does have traits that make him appropriate for this tourney. However, even supporting characters are still characters. And if the show makes me resent their screen-time and presence, then it doesn't matter how crucial to the plot, I'm not going to just let bygones be bygones. Of course, in this case, his match-up is the glorious Kuu, one of my favorite characters in the tournament. Her character is only physically present for spoiler[about 1/3 of the series], but her presence lingers on. Rakka (our darling main character) immediately connects with Kuu--of all the Haibane, Kuu is the one that does the most in bringing Rakka to a point where she feels comfortable and like she belongs. Thus, when Kuu suddenly spoiler[disappears] a dark emotional cloud falls upon the series--a series that had be relatively colorful and bright up to that point is jerked into the cruel reality of life. It is a reality that Rakka has a hard time coming to terms with and is really the focus of the rest of the series. Group D-30 Ami Kawashima, Toradora! vs. Akio Furukawa, Clannad franchise From two shows that I have to seen.... to two shows that I haven't. I feel a bit like I'm trying to shoot fish in a barrel here, but I've never let that stop me before. From the description, I'm honestly surprised that Ami is still around. Akio, on the other hand, is a sort of character (probably) that I'm especially fond of. I love parental characters that have to sacrifice a lot for their children. That he seems like a funny character is merely icing on the cake. This is a series I own, but haven't gotten a chance to watch yet, so I'll be excited to see how his character works on screen within the context of the series. |
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bahumut75
 Posts: 65 Location: Rochester, NY |
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Group D-29
Kuu, Haibane Renmei vs. Tanda, Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit Regrettably I haven't seen either of these series, although I've been meaning to watch Haibane Renme for some time now. It seems as though good arguments have been made for both sides, but the majority definitely seem to favor Tanda as a stronger overall support character, and so that is who I'm going to have to go for here. Group D-29 Tanda Group D-30 Ami Kawashima, Toradora! vs. Akio Furukawa, Clannad franchise Toradora! and Clannad, on the other hand, are both series that I loved. I should start by saying that I never really liked Ami's character too much; however, she definitely played a very strong supporting role in the series. Her introduction to the series changed the general atmosphere, and while some may call her character cliche, I think she had a big impact. She always seemed to have a better idea of what the main characters were thinking than they did, and, albeit begrudgingly, pushed them in the "right" direction. As a character, she seems to grow a lot in and of her own right throughout the series. Even though she retains her "two-faced" personality, you can see that she has been impacted by those around her as well. In Clannad, Akio plays two different roles, both of them important. In the first series, he is relegated mostly to comedic relief. Given the serious bits of the series, this is certainly an important role to lighten the mood from time to time, and he does it splendidly. He has no trouble making the audience laugh with his wild antics, and it makes his character very fun. The second role he plays is much more serious. I suppose I would classify this role as a father figure slash role model for Tomoya and Nagisa as they mature and their love blossoms. This aspect of his character is shown a few times in the first series, in particular, as others have mentioned, when spoiler[he tells Tomoya how he essencially gave up his dream of being an actor in order to be a better father for Nagisa.] I think this is one of the first times in the series when you see Akio's serious side, and it shows you how much he cares about his daughter even behind his somewhat ridiculous exterior. While there a number of other good scenes that display Akio's importance to the plot, I think the only other one I'll mention here for sake of this not running too long happens in After Story. While not so much a specific event as his general deinor, spoiler[After Nagisa's death, he continues to support Tomoya and his spiral into an alcoholic depression. He even becomes the father of Ushio for the first few years of her life. Given how much he adored his daughter, I thought that the unbelievable strength with which he carried himself was astounding. ] While I think Ami definitely belongs in this tournament on her merits, I just think that Akio comes off as the stronger of the two. He has to deal with some significant emotional developments in the series, and takes them in stride. As much as Ami was partially responsibile for the outcome of Toradora!, I feel as though that probably would have happened without her. Tomoya and Nagisa, on the other hand, probably could never have done what they did without Akio's support. Group D-30 Akio Furukawa |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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D-29:
At the start of the tournament I did not believe either of these candidates were worthy of getting to the quarter-finals. I'll have to eat humble pie, because I really underestimated Tanda. Well, I knew he was a good supporting character on a subconscious level (and I did find him agreeable when I watched the show), but the realisation just never hit me consciously. As for Kuu, I always thought she was over-nominated, and nothing has convinced me otherwise. She did a fair bit, such as introducing the series to the spoiler["Day of Flight",] but that was her biggest offering by far. Any of the Haibane could have done fulfilled it; Kuu just had a bit more screentime. I found her emotional impact limited; she was amicable, but I was never hooked in. I didn't care when spoiler[she went,] and found the strength of Rakka's grief to be a bit puzzling. But, characterisation was not Haibane Renmei's strong point, so it wasn't all Kuu's fault. There really isn't much else you can say about Kuu. She was rather limited, and I just don't think she deserves to win this match. Let's talk about about Tanda. He was always there for Balsa, Chagum, and the two orphan kids. He played a very subdued role most of the time, healing wounds, hiding friends, acting as an initial contact to his master, and lending a voice of reason and encouragement. Not stand-out things, nothing flashy, but still solid, decent work. Those attributes alone would have served him well in this tournament, but he goes a couple of steps further. He dealt with the astrology bloke a time or two, and in the final few episodes he lost the passive side and got his hands dirty (or should that be wet?). He was courageous and determined, qualities which served him well when he played a vital role in the end. Tanda may not steal scenes, but a good supporting character doesn't have to. There is more than one route to the prize, and he is the best remaining example of a more "deferential" approach; rather than trying to upstage the main characters, he instead empowers them. This is a clear decision for me. Tanda is more multi-faceted, and does each of his many roles better than Kuu does in her, um, two. So yes, my vote does indeed go to Tanda. D-30: I don't have as much to say about this match as I did for the last one. Ami's clip this time round did surprise me a little in how she was more original than I had thought. But if there is an Anime I've been watching lately that has surprised me, with characters that have surprised me, it is Clannad. A big reason why I started watching it was so that I could see how the best-rated Moe show was bad, and then by extension extrapolate that to say all Moe shows were fundamentally bad. Well, wasn't I in for a shock. It was actually funny. It was even more heartwarming. And the reason for this? Well, he doesn't get to claim all the credit, but Akio was great. Is great I should say, since I still haven't finished the first season. I thought I'd hate a character like him, and normally I would. But his laughter is somehow infectious, and you can almost feel the warmth from his heart. Or maybe it's his cigarette, not too sure. Look, Ami is better and deeper than I expected, but that's unfortunately not saying much. I still don't think she's all that great. Akio is also better than expected, but he is one big reason (admittedly amongst many) why Clannad has been enjoyable for me. The guy helped make a anti-Moe guy like a Moe show; give him some credit people. Akio it is. |
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abunai
Old Regular
 Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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Group D-29
Kuu, Haibane Renmei vs. Tanda, Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit Hm. One of my favourite anime is Haibane Renmei, and I really think Kuu is completely integral to its story. There is no way HR could have reached the level of emotional tension that it did without Kuu there to spoiler[demonstrate the clarity of spirit that is an essential part of the process of readiness that culminates in a haibane's Day of Flight]. As such, she is a supporting character of immense impact in the story. On the other hand, it's true that Tanda gets a great deal more air time, and far more chances to influence the main characters and the plot. He's indisputably an important supporting character, as well. What it comes down to, for me, is the degree of importance that I attach to the contestants in their respective anime. To me, Haibane Renmei without Kuu would be an abortion, an incomplete story. Seirei no Moribito without Tanda, on the other hand, is not an unthinkable concept. In consequence of which, I vote for Kuu. Group D-30 Ami Kawashima, Toradora! vs. Akio Furukawa, Clannad franchise I'm going to be conflicted about this vote, no matter which way I vote. Ami's wonderful two-faced nature (to begin with), and the deep friendship and essential goodness that she later demonstrates, make her a monumentally captivating and, it has to be said, loveable character. Large parts of the plot motion and character development in Toradora! are laid squarely on her shoulders, and she carries it off to perfection. She's not my favourite character in the series (that would be Minorin), but she shines. Akio, too, shines. From a comic-relief character, his personality is slowly explored throughout Clannad and After Story, giving us a deepening understanding of a man who is, for all his surface foolishness, a real man with deep devotion to his family and a solid backbone. Several times, he's the focus of some of the most tearjerking moments in the franchise, and he certainly deserves to be considered the equal of Ami. I'm torn by which to vote for, but in the end, I'll apply the same principle as in the other match, and vote for the person I find most unavoidable in his/her anime. Since I can imagine Clannad without Akio, but I cannot imagine Toradora! without Ami, my vote goes to Ami-chan. - abunai |
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farichada
 Posts: 303 Location: Wisconsin, USA |
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Group D-29
Kuu, Haibane Renmei vs. Tanda, Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit Air time does not equate to a better supporting character. While Tanda plays an important role; I found him a bit dull stiff, and uninteresting as a whole. Compared to the stronger characters left in this tournament Tanda lacks a strong sense of impact and presence. He is a solid background that strays little from the traditional mold of a supporting character. Kuu has far more impact despite her much smaller screen time. Sure her character may not be as complex, but that's because she's simply not isn't given substantial focus like Tanda, but sill remains effective. Group D-30 Ami Kawashima, Toradora! vs. Akio Furukawa, Clannad franchise Ami does have an undeniable presence, but I found her two-face routine to be a bit uninspired, and a bit unoriginal. Also her character tends to behave erratically and sometimes even plays against her character. I also favor Akio since he has just as much importance and impact even though the role he plays is a smaller one. I also like how Akio is effective at both laughs and srs bisness while Ami falls short on the latter. |
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RHachicho
 Posts: 897 Location: Essex, UK |
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I disagree strongly with this statement. While it is true that Tanda overall receives more screen time than Kuu. Kuu gets herspoiler[ day of flight which is about 5mm away from saying she dies. Because from the perspective of the other Haibane that's just what happens. And I agree with dtm42 that the grief over her departure seems forced.] This single fact I feel artificially gives her character a level of depth which she never actually displayed in the series. At all.
Though this one is of course a personal opinion and you are quite entitled to it  I would still like to dispute it. While tanda may be quiet I never found him uninteresting. And the few times where he got worked up became all the more poigniant because of his usual reserve. Balsa despite her somewhat standoffish demeanor always came accross to be as a very passionate person. After all she did spirit Chagum away from the palace based on no more than the desperate plea of his mother. Tanda is plot wise the perfect compliment to her personality . A loud brash or even normal character would not have had the same impact I think as quiet wise Tanda had for me.
I therefore also dispute Abunai's claim that SnM (Lol funny acronym alert I will keep it for it's novelty) without Tanda is not unthinkable. Admittedly the shows plot still could have trundled on in the same way that a wounded soldier could have crawled his way back to base before dying a horrible agonising screaming death. Sure the plot would be solid but it would be no good. I am going to mark the next paragraph spoiler as it will be full of em. spoiler[First let us consider the initial attack by the emperors assasins how would balsa have survived? she would either have to fall back on "Bandages heal everything" or encounter some random healer charcter that would do Tanda's job but would not have the same level of interaction. I suppose she could have met Torugal earlier. However Torugal's chemistry with balsa was never that great. (with one exception) ] spoiler[Tanda also covers for alot of balsa's mistakes if I remember right he saves the kids a couple of times when balsa's actions land them in a spot of bother how would they have gotten out of it. Especially the flower wine incident. Torugal was in the otherworld at the time without Tanda there would have been no Yakinue shaman to save Saya (or whatever her name is). And the star diviner would have had to find another way to arrive at his conclusions. The concersation between Tanda and the star deviner was I feel the best way to do things. When two different schools of research exchange notes revolutionary ideas and realisations ensue due to it being human to miss things discoveries interdependantly overlap and show more of the truth. Tanda being Yakinue was able to give the star deviner a new piece of information that no star diviner could have. Like a missing piece of the puzzle ]
Tanda is subtle alright but his impact is powerful and his presence in the show is definately felt. Him and balsa made that show and I don't mean solely as a couple I mean out of the depth and fascination engendered with their personalities. Snm Would have been half the show without Tanda
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The Naked Beast
 Posts: 1028 Location: A Blue Planet |
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Group D-29
Kuu, Haibane Renmei vs. Tanda, Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit Haibane Renmei has a lot of depth to it for being a 13 episode series. The Haibane themselves symbolize quite a lot of things which is heavily debated. The spoiler[Day of Flight] is shrouded in mystery and is left up to the viewers to determine its purpose. Nevertheless, Kuu's spoiler[departure] from the series dealt a series emotional blow to the remaining Haibane. It is also the transition point of a lighthearted story to a dark and more serious one. In my opinion, Kuu's spoiler[Day of Flight] symbolizes the transition of childhood to adulthood. There is this one event in our lives which brings us to a realization that we have to face the real world for what it is, whether good or bad, at some point in our lives. Kuu helped the Haibane realize that the other Haibane's spoiler[Day of Flight] could be upon them. To discover the true purpose of their existence is up to each individual Haibane. My vote goes to: Kuu. Group D-30 Ami Kawashima, Toradora! vs. Akio Furukawa, Clannad franchise I am not sure who to vote for but due to Skylark's detailed post supporting Ami Kawashima, my vote leans towards her. My vote goes to: Ami Kawashima. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18454 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Just an update for the round. (Would've put one out sooner, but I was at a convention the last four days. . .)
D-29: Although Kuu has seen a recent surge of votes, her loss to Tanda is a foregone conclusion barring something unprecedentedly strange happening in the next nine hours; he just built too much of a lead for this level of voting to overcome. D-30: This one is very tight (one vote split currently, and there have been multiple lead changes) and will likely go down to the wire. |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16963 |
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My 2 votes this round are going to basically be parroted posts by most of the people here in some fashion or another. Not much I can say about anyone left that I have not said, or someone else has not already said about them.
Group D-29 Tanda, Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit Reason: My vote is a close one. Like many others. They're both have equal impact as characters and equally drive their respective shows along. There's not much you can say about one that you can't say about the other. I think both shows would not be the same without either character. The one thing I think that can be said is Tanda is a bit more wider in depth and while I may not think as a character he's that much more multi faceted then Kuu his ROLE is. That's enough to give him the slight edge here and win the fight. Group D-30 Akio Furukawa, Clannad franchise Reason: Honestly both shows were not huge attention grabbers for me. Sure they;re not bad and I like them but they just didn't grab me as much as others. That being said both characters in turn grab my attention less then others. So my opinions on both are virtually equal like my above vote but for an obvious different reason. However given as how we're at this point in the tournament I won't just flip a coin or go with personal preference. I've re-read all votes this round and many for the last few regarding these 2 characters. I think Ami came in with bigger advantage and expectation then Akio did. I think Akio has proven his mettle a bit more and the arguments for him have been more moving and inspiring. Given that I have to say he gets my vote. The arguments for his case I think have done a better job of bringing him out of the lower levels where he can shine and show his merits as a supporting character at this point in the tournament. I would not have originally voted for him at this point but my mind has been changed. Tell ya right now though next round regardless if it's Tanda or Kuu he won't get my vote again though. His journey will be at an end but for now he an bask in the warm glow of another vote. |
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Spastic Minnow
 Bargain HunterExempt from Grammar Rules  Posts: 4630 Location: Gainesville, FL |
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I think that the Ami/Akio duel does represent some of my earlier thoughts on the way people vote in this tournament.
It can definitely be argued that Ami is a better "character" (although Akio is not a weak character if you think about it) and certainly she actually takes the spotlight more, but I don't see how she supports her show better. The characters actually ignore her insight and her argument with Minorin is actually a bit confusing. In a way her story does contribute to the wider theme of "runnning away" that is presented throughout the show- she learns to face her problem but how she uses what she learns is debatable. Yes, she (and all of the friends) seem to agree that spoiler[Taiga and Ryuji running away at the end is a silly idea] but she and the rest leave it up to the two of them to solve their own problems. If anything she's really just an enabler. I find that to be a problem. There's never an "Akio arc" in Clannad, so he doesn't get a spotlight but I simply do not think that the fact that Ami does get her own story (and the best parts of her part in the show are all about her with very little real impact on the others) should be a deciding factor in voting for her, when AKio does support his show in a much realer way. There, that's my final argument for Akio in this round. ...And I don't mean to insult those that genuinely do feel Ami does "support" her show better than Akio without putting too much credence on her spotlighted turns. I have been impressed with some of the arguments for her- just not enough. |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar Posts: 16963 |
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i think you make a good point and i would wager there probably is some truth in it for some of the votes from people. I hadn't thought about it like that myself personally so it's a nice insight. I for one however do go first by the support they give and how well they help move other characters and the plot along. If that is a pretty dead even match though I think THEN going by the characters themselves is a reasonable thing. Hopefully though that does come after considering their support first. |
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ccdx
 Posts: 312 |
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Group D-29
Kuu, Haibane Renmei vs. Tanda, Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit This match easily goes to Tanda. Kuu's presence and moments in the series are far too short to really get a grasp on how good of a character she really is. Kuu more or less fills the role of participating in a traumatic event, that the main character Rakka has a hard time dealing with. Tanda on the other hand is a integral part of the series. He helps the main character on many occasions, all the way till the story's conclusion. Group D-30 Ami Kawashima, Toradora! vs. Akio Furukawa, Clannad franchise Wow, this really is not even close. I don't see how Akio really should even be considered here. He obviously serves the role comedic relief. He hardly participates in any scenes, at least in the first series, and when he does, yes it is memorable and funny, but he doesn't serve to move the story along in any way. Ami on the other hand serves a very important role. She participates in moments of comic relief, but also supports the main characters many times along the way. |
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Ggultra2764
 Subscriber Posts: 3966 Location: New York state. |
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In Akio's defense, the guy essentially becomes a surrogate father figure to Tomoya considering the boy's own father problems drove him to not trust his father and going down the road of being a delinquent. He helps provide advice to the kid in approaching his relationship with his daughter being a carefree fellow and details told about his past later in the first series reveal he sacrificed a lot to provide happiness and support for Nagisa where he and his wife wouldn't be too wrapped up in their past professions. He even spoiler[allows Tomoya to stay with him, Sanae and Nagisa to get away from his troubles at home]. That screams involvement with developing the characters, an element that's also major in showing off the quality of a title. Just because a supporting character doesn't get too deeply involved in the plot doesn't mean they can also be around to provide further fleshing out and/or helping to provide support and development of the major characters in some form. |
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Megiddo
 Posts: 8360 Location: IL |
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Like when? She made some cryptic messages to Ryuuji about the Sun/Moon and a few other cryptic messages later on. She then went on to have a girl fight with Minorin. And then she offered her villa spoiler[for Ryuuji/Taiga to stay in if they were to elope.] Let me know if I missed something. |
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