Forum - View topic

NEWS: Department of Justice Files Suit Over Comics Scan Site

His clearly not under any delusions he just doesn't care.

It's like the speed subber who cares more about being the first one released and not about the quality of the sub. His just in it for the views, and the ego those views bring.

More copyright absolutism bullshit. Did the point about how this is unrealistic in an era of changing technology and changing expectations about the use of non-rival, non-excludable information make a nice sound as it went wooshing over your head?

And I probably come from an era where we were taught to play nice & not steal. I'm sorry. No matter what words you use to convince yourself & your cronies you can't steal words or ideas (aren't all inventions ideas? Are not words put together in in a series to create a story a tangible object? A wizard is a wizard, but Harry Potter is a specific wizard with specific adventures created by his author) if the person who put that art on that page & who put that story together didn't say "Hell yeah, you can post my tale on the net for free" then no, you have no right on this planet to take the art that person slaved over to make.

Your just taking the easy/lazy path to this, waiting upon others to enact your desires and will. so don't complain when they aren't leaping to take on the risks and costs of your "awesome" plan.

Artists also read what you say, and some of them actually are getting sad and depressed over your kind of selfishness.

Oh and just because technology changes does not mean that the rights that we grant authors and other creatives dies or changes with that shift.

You are confused as what they are trying to do if you will is pull weeds so that legitimate efforts can succeed without competing against someone who by all rights should not exist and are preying upon a fan communities very ignorance. These people are literally bilking you and others efforts and goodwill.

Also in terms of copyright law there is no squatters rights, and even than copyrights expire after 75 years after the death of the original creator, so just because they are silent and are not releasing it to you does it give you some kind of squatter right to it, you need to ask.

As the manga author will and are proverbially taking their bats and going home, and I don't think you want that, as than the industry which you claim to like, the manga that you claim to like will effectively be gone. Oh sure there will be the mass market stuff that look like a shiny apple, but that apple will be really hollow..

Fanofde4ever wrote:

... Oh and you would not believe how quick it is to replace the links if you know what you're doing.

According to your estimate, it would take a day or two to replace 1,000 episodes. So one volunteer working a day on defense of their favorite series from attack could occupy the time of five to ten volunteers engaged in sticking the knife into the backs of the creators of the series.

Charred Knight wrote:

His clearly not under any delusions he just doesn't care.

Except then proceeding to argue that he does care:

Quote:

It's like the speed subber who cares more about being the first one released and not about the quality of the sub. His just in it for the views, and the ego those views bring.

And hence ego-stroking is likely to be an important part of recruiting volunteers to do the work that allows the big sites to generate a profit. And the ego defense against the charge of being a pathetic patsy being taken advantage of by the people who are in it for the money keeps coming up in the repeated declarations about not being a fan of the current owner.

And I take it somebody with a differing opinion is a troll now? I haven't cursed (that I can remember), and I haven't started any off topic arguments (I believe agila brought up streaming videos).

Fanofde4ever wrote:

agila61 wrote: Fanofde4ever wrote: ... Oh and you would not believe how quick it is to replace the links if you know what you're doing. According to your estimate, it would take a day or two to replace 1,000 episodes. So one volunteer working a day on defense of their favorite series from attack could occupy the time of five to ten volunteers engaged in sticking the knife into the backs of the creators of the series. I did Legend of the Galactic Heroes in roughly 2 hours, so yeah 2 days should be sufficient for 1000 videos if I was feeling overly energetic. And I take it somebody with a differing opinion is a troll now? I haven't cursed (that I can remember), and I haven't started any off topic arguments (I believe agila brought up streaming videos). agila61 wrote: Charred Knight wrote: His clearly not under any delusions he just doesn't care. Except then proceeding to argue that he does care: Quote: It's like the speed subber who cares more about being the first one released and not about the quality of the sub. His just in it for the views, and the ego those views bring. And hence ego-stroking is likely to be an important part of recruiting volunteers to do the work that allows the big sites to generate a profit. And the ego defense against the charge of being a pathetic patsy being taken advantage of by the people who are in it for the money keeps coming up in the repeated declarations about not being a fan of the current owner. Let's see if I can straighten this out. I was not "recruited". I asked to be allowed to join the staff (multiple times before I was actually allowed to), because that's where I was first introduced to anime other than what was on Cartoon Network, and is the soul reason I have bought any and all of the anime I have. Because of that I wanted to help work on the site. At that time the current owner was more or less absent, and the site was basically run by the forum members. We worked there, cause we wanted to. That was a year and a half ago. In the last ~6 months he has decided to allow the site to spread viruses multiple times, made staff changes on a whim without out saying anything to anybody before or after, among other things. I didn't ask to be admin, and I, along with most of the active forum members, were unhappy with the 2 existing admins that were demoted when I was made admin. That is why I'm not a fan of Jacky, and refuse to work on his site for him. He's taken all the fun out of it, and allowed the site to go down the toilet. I'm just there for the forum.

The fact that you clearly want to see anime fail in America by diverting the money from the people who pay the creators for the rights to the series so that some guy named Jackie could make millions of dollars.

What looks wrong here - that those paying for anime/manga, but still watch/read it illegally don't exist.

No one of us have the right data, or data at all, ...

...so don't go around assuming we're all ripping off the industry.

I watch lots without paying, but I also pay for lots within my budget. Illegally available or not, the much I spend won't change (and it's more than enough to afford what's currently being released in the US/UK, but keep in mind that I've been buying for just a few years and I'm making up for over a decade).

And agila, nothing personal, but your arguments are overly repetitive. I no longer read your arguments because it's clear you'll not change your view any soon.

They're not bilking me.

What looks wrong here - that those paying for anime/manga, but still watch/read it illegally don't exist.

Yes, there is something different about controlling the duplication of ideas, than from traditional property rights. If I made a tv set and sold it to someone, I don't have a right to keep demanding money from the person I sold it to. Copyright is just a legal construct, and without it, nobody has a right to control the production of copies of the information that make up copyrights (which is why, for example, nobody talks about discoverers in basic science having a "right" to control the distribution and discussion of that knowledge).

As I've pointed out, multiple times, harping on the "it's illegal" point is idiotic.

The system itself is becoming fundamentally dysfunctional and pointless in an era where the distribution of information doesn't cost a fortune anymore. You're doing the manga producers no favors, by the way, in delaying that shift.

Let's see if I can straighten this out. I was not "recruited". I asked to be allowed to join the staff (multiple times before I was actually allowed to), because that's where I was first introduced to anime other than what was on Cartoon Network, and is the soul reason I have bought any and all of the anime I have. Because of that I wanted to help work on the site. At that time the current owner was more or less absent, and the site was basically run by the forum members. We worked there, cause we wanted to. That was a year and a half ago. In the last ~6 months he has decided to allow the site to spread viruses multiple times, made staff changes on a whim without out saying anything to anybody before or after, among other things. I didn't ask to be admin, and I, along with most of the active forum members, were unhappy with the 2 existing admins that were demoted when I was made admin. That is why I'm not a fan of Jacky, and refuse to work on his site for him. He's taken all the fun out of it, and allowed the site to go down the toilet. I'm just there for the forum.

As someone who finally bowed to the need for a cell phone just last month, far be it from me to force technology on anyone else. There's that guy I read about who had his house key in his hand or whatever. Wonderful for him. Not all of us want that. I was a telephone operator & hate telephones-HATE telephones-so th idea of lugging one around everywhere was something I had to work up to. Yes, the artists need to come into the 21st century, but what fansubbers are doing is akin to forcing these artists to have cell phones implanted in their bodies so they have to use them.
When the artists see it is holding them back they will, as I did, cave in. I know I will have to buy something like a Kindle or whatever, but the report of their pulling titles off the machine (when they figured out the title wasn't public domain & thus their copy was not valid) gives me pause as did TP's pitch about a library program they are part of where where the title downloads & then vanishes when the borrow period is over is disturbing. If I buy a title, it should be mine & it shouldn't be sucked away because someone somewhere changes their mind about the availability. It's like they say avoid a car for the first couple years. Some people embrace technology immediately while others want to be sure all the bugs have been worked out.
Fansubbers are forcing their level of technology comfort on others (the artists) against their will. It may not be illegal, but it is rude, discourteous, & wrong. In a nation built on the rights of the individual, it is even more wrong. Fansubbing is like ordering Ford to sell cars in every color under the sun because the buyers want the option as opposed to them making cars in a dozen colors or so every year because they can get a cost-effective deal by buying paint in lots. Why should the rights of the user override the rights of the maker?

Fanofde4ever wrote:

Let's see if I can straighten this out. I was not "recruited". I asked to be allowed to join the staff (multiple times before I was actually allowed to), because that's where I was first introduced to anime other than what was on Cartoon Network, and is the soul reason I have bought any and all of the anime I have. Because of that I wanted to help work on the site. At that time the current owner was more or less absent, and the site was basically run by the forum members. We worked there, cause we wanted to. That was a year and a half ago. In the last ~6 months he has decided to allow the site to spread viruses multiple times, made staff changes on a whim without out saying anything to anybody before or after, among other things. I didn't ask to be admin, and I, along with most of the active forum members, were unhappy with the 2 existing admins that were demoted when I was made admin. That is why I'm not a fan of Jacky, and refuse to work on his site for him. He's taken all the fun out of it, and allowed the site to go down the toilet. I'm just there for the forum.

So answer me how can you post these titles when the people making them have been saying for years "Please stop, you're killing me?"
I cannot conceive of where one's head would be to have the gall to defy the desires of the creators.
It's wrong & I personally believe there is a special place in hell for this sort of evil.