Forum - View topicBest Supporting Character Tournament: Post-Mortem
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Bluebeard
 Posts: 267 Location: Massachusetts |
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Group A-17
Maes Hughes, Fullmetal Alchemist franchise vs. Eri Ninamori, FLCL Winner: Maes Hughes Group A-18 Haruka Tenoh/Sailor Uranus, Sailor Moon vs. Toki, Princess Mononoke Winner: Haruka Group A-19 Nabuca, Now and Then, Here and There vs. Kazuko Yoshiyama, The Girl Who Leapt Through Time Winner: Kazuko Yoshimaya Group A-20 Genkai, Yu Yu Hakusho vs. Nana, Elfen Lied Winner: Nana When I first voted for Nana in the first round I had completely forgotten about my avatar.  I have to stick by her because of how she added an entire new dimension to Elfen Lied. Without her it would have been a very simple show about some mad scientists and their dangerous monsters. People argue about how Nana gave a measure of innocence to the Diclonius but more than that she also gives Kurama a measure of humanity that isn't present among the rest of the scientists.
Group A-21 Lt. Yamamoto The Irresponsible Captain Tylor vs. Christopher Armalite, Scrapped Princess Winner: Lt. Yamamoto Group A-22 Kimura, Azumanga Daioh vs. Edel, Princess Tutu Winner: Kimura Group A-23 Alex Rowe, Last Exile vs. Renge Hoshakuji, Ouran High School Host Club Winner: Alex Rowe Group A-24 Ushio Okazaki, Clannad After Story vs. Nabeshin, Excel Saga, et al. Winner: Ushio |
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farichada
 Posts: 303 Location: Wisconsin, USA |
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Group A-17
Maes Hughes, Fullmetal Alchemist franchise Group A-18 Haruka Tenoh/Sailor Uranus, Sailor Moon Got to vote for the classic, but I don’t like her chances next round. Group A-19 Nabuca, Now and Then, Here and There Nabuca is clearly the better character, but I have to also admit that he’s a semi-main, and that should count against him. Other tournaments borderline entries were rooted out naturally, but here they satisfy the criteria even better than supporting characters. To end the discussion at nominations is silly, since there are many borderline cases and most people only voted against the most blatant offenders of the main character rule. Ami may even be a bigger example of this since she is apart of the main ensemble, and I would consider her a main even more so than Nabuca. Group A-20 Genkai, Inuyasha Not a fan of the overly dramatic and overwrought Nana. Group A-21 Lt. Yamamoto The Irresponsible Captain Tylor There’s no doubt in my opinion that Lt. Yamamoto is the better pick. He is far more impressive, and he is the epitome of supporting characters because without him the show would be mediocre. He’s one of the funniest characters than I know, and his role as a funny man is just one of the ways he contributes to the series. Group A-22 Kimura, Azumanga Daioh Mainly based on sheer presence, but I don’t see him going far despite his unrelenting ridiculousness. Group A-23 Alex Rowe, Last Exile Group A-24 Ushio Nabeshin is not bad, but Ushio is far too much of an emotional roller coaster to not vote for. |
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mow123
 Posts: 339 |
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I know both characters very well. Anyone willing to help out Ushio at last minute with a vote change since she is slightly behind at the moment? She is far more critical in the storytelling and development in her series than Nabeshin ever dreamed of. She is also the driving force behind the emotional aspect in Clannad as soon as she appears and that's a critical part of the moe genre, so that should count for something. Nabehsin is funny, random, and a bit dynamic, but not much else. Bit suprised scene stealers like him are doing so well. Sure, it's cool to vote against moe, but based on content Ushio has an edge as an amazing character in a genre, which sadly, is not really known for those kind of things. Also isn't last minute vote changes fun especially when it's for the more deserving of the two, and it may balance out a little of the slight anti-moe bias present in these forums.
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Ggultra2764
 Subscriber Posts: 3966 Location: New York state. |
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For moe haters though (counting myself  ) Ushio's role seemed to be more of a crutch for Tomoya to gain pity from the audience and manipulate the audience to feel sympathy for Ushio, as well as spoiler[the older Ushio in the dream world] being a deus ex machina that makes the drama buildup from baby Ushio's problems pointless. Not to mention the Willing Suspension of Disbelief.
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bonbonsrus
 Posts: 1537 Location: Michigan, USA |
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Group A-17
Maes Hughes, Fullmetal Alchemist franchise vs. Eri Ninamori, FLCL Winner: Maes Hughes Group A-18 Haruka Tenoh/Sailor Uranus, Sailor Moon vs. Toki, Princess Mononoke Winner: Haruka Tenoh Group A-19 Nabuca, Now and Then, Here and There vs. Kazuko Yoshiyama, The Girl Who Leapt Through Time Winner: Nabuca Group A-20 Genkai, Yu Yu Hakusho vs. Nana, Elfen Lied Winner: Genkai Group A-21 Lt. Yamamoto The Irresponsible Captain Tylor vs. Christopher Armalite, Scrapped Princess Winner: Lt. Yamamoto Group A-22 Kimura, Azumanga Daioh vs. Edel, Princess Tutu Winner: Edel Group A-23 Alex Rowe, Last Exile vs. Renge Hoshakuji, Ouran High School Host Club Winner: Alex Rowe Group A-24 Ushio Okazaki, Clannad After Story vs. Nabeshin, Excel Saga, et al. Winner: Nabeshin |
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mow123
Posts: 339 |
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Moe is not going for realism with its genre. However, it does shoot for emotional impact and Ushio delivers that. Obviously, cynics, and haters of the genre will disagree, but it's best to judge her based on what the genre is set out to do which to evoke emotions, and be a tearjerker not be a realistic drama. Sadly, with this last vote Ushio's demise seems immient with a 3 vote deficiet by my count. She will need at least one vote change at this point in the last 10 mins, which seems highly unlikely at this point, but feel free to prove me wrong.
Last edited by mow123 on Mon May 24, 2010 10:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ggultra2764
Subscriber Posts: 3966 Location: New York state. |
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bonbonsrus, Key's not gonna count your votes unless you provide an explanation for a position on at least one of your votes. He made that a new rule for the rest of this round.
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18454 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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There's no anti-moe bias and my vote, though, and I voted for Nabeshin over Ushio despite having seen all of both and vociferously supporting Ushio in the first round. And, to be perfectly honest, Ushio is, by far, the most spoiler-laden supporting character in this entire tournament; her very existence, and the nature of who she is, are both spoilers. There's no way we could do video clips of her which give any sense of her impact without getting into massive spoilers. Thus, even though I think it's a close call, picking Nabeshin is the less problematic pick as well as the right one. |
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mow123
Posts: 339 |
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Perhaps, her defeat will be easier due to less spoilers. And I wasn't referring a bias in against moe in ANN staff though that is debatable, and I also believe ANN has also made an outstanding recent effort to publish opinions about shows that use moe from both moe fans and those who do not like that genre, which is a step in the right direction. It just appears that these forums attract fans with a taste for older content, and slight bias against fluff in general not just moe. |
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Ggultra2764
Subscriber Posts: 3966 Location: New York state. |
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It's after midnight. Uggghhh, Edel's loss is gonna effect my mini-game the next couple rounds.
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18454 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Round 2 Group B is now closed.
Final results, with bonbonsrus's votes not counting for not including any argument for any match: A-17: Maes Hughes crushes Eri Ninamori 21-1. A-18: Sailor Uranus triumphs "in the name of love and justice" over Toki 17-5. A-19: Nabuca def. Kazuko Yoshiyama 13-9 A-20: Genkai def. Nana 13-9 whenNana's arms and legs fall off (and she thus can't keep up). A-21: Lt. Yamamoto def. Christopher Armalite 15-7. A-22: Kimura def. Edel 13-9. A-23: Renge slips by Alex Row 12-10. A-24: Nabeshin fends off a late run by Ushio 12-10. So 6/8 matches were at least competitive. The vote total was a little disappointing, and such a flood of votes coming in the last hour is, frankly, annoying; yeah, it makes for more intrigue, but it also means I get to bed later on those nights. Please make an effort in the future to vote a little earlier, as that will also give you a chance to correct things if you forget to do something - like, say, doing an argument for one of the matches.
Anyway, with our first eight third-round participants now decided, it's time to start thinking about video clips for Round 3. If you have ideas for what particular approx. 5 minute scene (or collection of 2-3 shorter clips adding up to around 5 minutes) shows off the competitors' character and series contribution, send the suggestions to me or ccdx within the next couple of weeks. Please note that, traditionally speaking, clips from earlier in the series/franchise are preferred for the third round. (And the clip for Lt. Yamamoto had better be pretty impressive, since he's now swamped two opponents that I do know and never though would be push-overs.) And did anyone else get their minigame bracket mauled by this group?
Anyway, next round should be up very shortly. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18454 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Round 2 Group B is now closed.
Results can be found here. Please vote early and. . . uh, well, just vote early! We have a bunch of nicely-competitive-looking match-ups this time, too. I can only see one, maybe two, that I would expect to be a blow-out. Group B-17 Balalaika, Black Lagoon vs. November 11, Darker Than Black Group B-18 Franz d’Epinay, Gankutsuou: The Count of Monte Cristo vs. Shihoun Yoruichi, Bleach Group B-19 Dr. Reichwein, Monster vs. Kurz Weber, Full Metal Panic! franchise Group B-20 Shikamaru, Naruto franchise vs. Roy Focker, Super Dimension Fortress Macross Group B-21 Ichiro Mihara, Angelic Layer vs. Winry Rockbell, Fullmetal Alchemist franchise Group B-22 Cornelia li Britannia, Code Geass vs. Hosaka, Minami-ke Group B-23 Leopold Scorpse, Scrapped Princess vs. Reika Mishima, RahXephon Group B-24 Letopanyu Spoor, Crest/Banner of the Stars franchise vs. Misaki Kirihara, Darker Than Black franchise Last edited by Key on Mon May 31, 2010 11:39 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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LydiaDianne
 Posts: 5634 Location: Southern California |
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Group B-17
Balalaika, Black Lagoon Going with Balalaika (not just because I like saying her name) but because of the clips I’ve seen of her in the previous tournament. One heck of a lady. Group B-18 Shihoun Yoruichi, Bleach Mentor, big sister, teacher and disciplinarian for Ichigo and friends. She’s there for them when they really need her. And while she has nothing to do (officially) with the Soul Society, she does care, support and defend it. Group B-19 Kurz Weber, Full Metal Panic! franchise Group B-20 Shikamaru, Naruto franchise Group B-21 Winry Rockbell, Fullmetal Alchemist franchise This one is a tough one because I enjoy both characters so very much, but I’m going to have to go with Winry because she is has been supporting the Elric Brothers from the time they were children. Ichiro was only in Misaki’s life for a very short period of time. No matter how influential he was, he just can’t stand up to Winry. Group B-22 Hosaka, Minami-ke Group B-23 Reika Mishima, RahXephon This was a tough one for me as well, but Reika is a more influential character than Leo, who is more of a comedic one. Group B-24 Letopanyu Spoor, Crest/Banner of the Stars franchise |
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Ggultra2764
Subscriber Posts: 3966 Location: New York state. |
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Match B-17: Balalaika (Black Lagoon)
Match B-18: Franz d'Epinay (Gankutsuou) Match B-19: Dr. Reichwein (Monster) Match B-20: Roy Focker (Macross) Match B-21: Winry Rocknell (Full Metal Alchemist franchise) Match B-22: Cornelia vi Britannia (Code Geass) I didn't really find Hosaka funny during his gags in Minami-ke as I got more enjoyment out of the antics of the Minamis and Makoto and I'm more into comical supporting characters that are the show-stealing type like Renge and Nabeshin for this tourney. Cornelia, on the other hand, has major presence within Code Geass serving as the first of Lelouch's major obstacles in his revenge against Britannia and being a supportive older sister to Euphemia despite the rough surface and ruthlessness she displays in battle and her anti-Japanese sentiments. Match B-23: Leopold Scorpse (Scrapped Princess) Match B-24: Misaki Kirihara (Darker than Black) |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18454 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Group B-17
Balalaika, Black Lagoon vs. November 11, Darker Than Black Will this one be a contest or not? It's a pretty interesting match-up between important supporting characters from two series that are similar in spirit and execution. (Both are excellently well-dubbed in English, too.) On the one side we have the frigid, scar-faced Queen Bitch whose is a delight with her ruthlessness, efficiency, and carefully-controlled violent edge, and on the other we have the suave, dashing special agent who is no less capable of violence but gives off a vibe more akin to a less sexist James Bond. Both are about equally important to their series; Nov. 11 becomes a significant player in the overall plot of DTB due in part to his past association with one of the key antagonists, while Balalaika has an integral role in several of the BL story arcs. For me, this one comes down to personal preference, so I have to side with the more bad-ass one. Balalaika gets my vote by a narrow margin. Group B-18 Franz d’Epinay, Gankutsuou: The Count of Monte Cristo vs. Shihoun Yoruichi, Bleach Franz is an important character in Gankutsuou, but Yoruichi also has an important role (especially in the Soul Society arc) and, I feel, adds a bit more flavor to her series. Another close one for me, though. Group B-19 Dr. Reichwein, Monster vs. Kurz Weber, Full Metal Panic! franchise Not familiar enough with Monster to know Dr. Reichwein well, and his Guide entry fails to impress me enough to ever consider voting for him over the much more colorful and fun sniper mecha specialist Kurz. The Group's easiest pick for me. Group B-20 Shikamaru, Naruto franchise vs. Roy Focker, Super Dimension Fortress Macross This one is also a toughie. Roy Focker is unquestionably the most important supporting character in SDF Macross, and he is a character to be sure, but his downfall is that he is the more generic character of the two. Shikamaru is one of the rare break-the-mold characters in Naruto and may stand second only to Naruto himself in terms of screen presence, especially once he starts showing off his intelligence. Ultimately, he's a more memorable character, and that's just enough to make the difference here. Group B-21 Ichiro Mihara, Angelic Layer vs. Winry Rockbell, Fullmetal Alchemist franchise The other easy one for me this Group. Ichiro just doesn't have a good enough write-up, or enough screen presence, to have much of a chance against Winry here, who is important as much for being the Elric brothers' link to their past and a normal world as she is for being Ed's much-put-upon mechanic. And she's cuter, too! Group B-22 Cornelia li Britannia, Code Geass vs. Hosaka, Minami-ke Hosaka got some good arguments last round, and I think Cornelia is the more vulnerable of the two CG sisters present in this tournament, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. I am eager to see how he performs in clips. Group B-23 Leopold Scorpse, Scrapped Princess vs. Reika Mishima, RahXephon This one was a hard one for me to pick in the minigame, as I could see it going either way. Both have important functions within their respective series and about the same-sized roles, though they function differently. I give Leo the edge because he's more colorful and memorable and because his honest earnestness makes him more endearing. Group B-24 Letopanyu Spoor, Crest/Banner of the Stars franchise vs. Misaki Kirihara, Darker Than Black franchise Misaki arguably has a bigger part, but as someone who has seen and admired the entirety of both franchises, she shouldn't win. Vice-Admiral Spoor more deserves the honor of advancing because, in a point-by-point evaluation, she beats Misaki in every aspect except screen time. While Misaki may be present more, in both DTB series (especially the first) she is much more of the outsider looking in rather than a direct participant in the main plots. Spoor, OTOH, is the most-featured and most-active front-line leader in the Big Picture of Crest/Banner and is integrally involved in Jinto and Lafiel's plot arc in Banner II as well as getting peripherally involved with their story in Crest. She also, frankly, has much more personality than Misaki does. The way she can toy with people and yet still be an impressively effective leader is such a delight that the series is never dull when she's on the screen. |
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