Forum - View topicHistory and anime
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Mitsuhide A.
Posts: 200 Location: somewhere where you aren't |
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Im not quite sure if there is a wealth of historically based anime, but i was wondering if any of you have found a greater interest in history after having seen an anime. Personally i must say that i can attribute my interest in Feudal Japan and Meiji to Rurouni Kenshin. Also,although its not an anime, Dynasty Warriors gave me a greater curiosity in Post Han China.
What about the rest of you. Has your anime hobby led to a thurst for history or did you pick certain animes knowing that they contained historical topics that you liked? |
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abunai
Old Regular
 Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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Well, this is an interesting question, and I'm looking forward to seeing how others answer it.
As for myself, I first encountered anime as a child, and it has always been part of my world, so to speak - so it's hard to say to what extent it has influenced my thinking (apart from an obscure desire to get in the cockpit of a giant robot and smash the Tokyo Tower, that is  ).
I happen to be a professional historian, so it may be that I look at the matter from a different perspective. Historians are often debating the merits of popular entertainment (films, novels, comics and yes, anime) in educating the general public about history. What the debate often boils down to is an uncomfortable realisation that: 1) The public is getting the wrong idea about history, since much of the "historical" material available in popular media is utter garbage. Most storytellers are storytellers first, and historians second (if at all). If historical realism gets in the way of telling the story, then it goes out the window (sometimes justified, but just as often simply out of intellectual laziness). 2) There's absolutely nothing to be done about the garbage - people being human, it will always be there, so the only viable course is to steer people in the direction of those popular historical representations which are at least marginally better than the rest. I have never seen an historical film or read an historical novel which did not, at some point, make me cringe from the misconceptions and half truths purveyed in it. This ranges from truly monumental pieces of garbage. For instance, if you want to see something truly hair-raising, see John Wayne as Genghis Khan in The Conqueror (1956). I kid you not. Or that miserable excuse for an "historical" film, Gladiator, widely touted as "highly realistic" (*shudder*). As regards Japan... In recent years, we've had such odious nonsense as the TV series Shogun (evil, evil treacherous slant-eyed Japanese samurai killing each other) and American patriotic films dealing with WWII (evil, evil treacherous slant-eyed Japanese pilots bombing Pearl Harbor) and the occasional modern-day "cautionary tale", like Ridley Scott's awful Black Rain (evil, evil treacherous slant-eyed Japanese Yakuza cutting off their own pinkies). With a few exceptions (Hotaru no Haka being the most notable), WWII is something that hasn't really been dealt with in great detail in anime - but see the Battlefield episode of Mahou Shoutengai Abenobashi for an amusing pun on this, as Sasshi bombs the Pearl Barber shop. Probably the favourite subject for historical anime is the period of the Meiji Restoration. A tumultuous period in Japanese history. Occasional forays in the Heian era (Mahou Shoutengai Abenobashi) or the early Showa period (Yawara! and Asagiri no Miko) also occur, though usually as part of a f.l.a.s.h.b.a.c.k episode - these periods are less dramatic, and consequently not as popular. - abunai (You're wondering why I wrote it "f.l.a.s.h.b.a.c.k", aren't you? Yes, you are, I can tell. Well, try posting a message containing the word in plain text, and you'll understand... apparently, this board considers that word a "bad word"  )
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Mitsuhide A.
Posts: 200 Location: somewhere where you aren't |
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One series that i completely forgot to mention (and probably shouldnt as many people either dislike it or dont consider it anime) is Reign. Yes, despites its being a sub-par show it did have a good bit of information in there about Alexander the Great who i knew very little about. Now i have a general interest in the conquest of Alexander and the subsequent kingdoms that were formed after his death.
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Geri
 Posts: 29 |
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Rose of Versailles deals with the French Revolution. It is liberal with the characters, of course, but many of the events are spot on (well, at least with what I've read from the French Revolution).
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Nani?
 Posts: 632 |
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Part of the reason that you don't see much about WW2 is that the Japanese schools do a poor job of teaching it and history in general. This is deliberate for one very good reason. The political succesors of those who started the Pacific War, unlike the Nazi's, were "reconstructed". They have a name, Liberal Democrats. They've run Japan for the last 50 years, mostly without effective opposition (achieved through assasination, a free press that's not quite free, and subtle intimdation). WW2 has 1-2 pages in a typical Japanese textbook, and even then, it's words are chosen selectively. For example, Invasion is replaced with "advanced into" Asia. The only war crimes your going to hear about are Hiroshima and Nagasaki. As for historical Anime, Gasaraki (disk 5 NA release) has three "flashback" episodes that take place in the late Hein (circa 900-1185) period and includes several historical figures (Yoritomo and his brother) and an epidemic that really happened. Also in Anime, I think you see more attitudes that have thier basis in very old beliefs. After all, the Samurai "offically" have only been out of power for 140 years or so. Shinto, though "revised" in the Meiji period (for purely nationalistic reasons) has roots going back to the time when Japan was inhabited by small farming tribes and hunter gatherers. All the Best, Nani? Last edited by Nani? on Fri Jun 25, 2004 1:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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abunai
Old Regular
Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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Ahem. 
-abunai |
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king_micah
 Posts: 994 Location: OSU |
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Even in anime it's true. Grave of the fireflies deals with only the end of the War, and shows the suffering there. Millieium Actress does contain parts about the war, and shows it in an unfavorable light toward Japan, but I don't know of a Japanese version of Mouse, or anything manga or anime like that that deals with their war crimes and agression. This blindness to the past, BTW, is part of why their neighbors can be so edgy |
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abunai
Old Regular
Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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Well, Maus isn't a German comic, either. It's American. So by that comparison, Germany has still to come to terms with its war crimes. Now where's the comic dealing with *cough* U.S. internment of Japanese-Americans during WWII *cough*? And who says America's neighbours aren't edgy...? -abunai |
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king_micah
Posts: 994 Location: OSU |
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Eh, your right, it is American. My bad.
But we do have movies on Japanese Internment, and German internment during the second world war, we also discuss it freely, and admit what we did was wrong. We also debate the morality of the Bomb, and we all know what it's effects were. Our neighbors are more edgy us economically then outta fear of invasion. All jokes aside, we haven't fought Canada for nearly two centuries, and Mexico for a century and a half. We won't too. Japan's aggression is much fresher and not well dealt with. There are still those in government who dispute the BC weapons tests in China, let alone the Rape of Nanking. Germans' made it a crime to deny their war crimes, and it gets enforced. Although they skimp over the war in German schools, the parts they focus on are the Shoah and how it happened. Japan too often remembers only the A-bomb, and not much else. |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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Here's an astounding quotation by Rev. Martin Niemöller: Als die Nazis die Kommunisten holten, habe ich geschwiegen; ich war ja kein Kommunist. Als sie die Sozialdemokraten einsperrten, habe ich geschwiegen; ich war ja kein Sozialdemokrat. Als sie die Gewerkschafter holten, habe ich nicht protestiert; ich war ja kein Gewerkschafter. Als sie die Juden holten, habe ich nicht protestiert; ich war ja kein Jude. Als sie mich holten, gab es keinen mehr, der protestierte. English translation: When the Nazis arrested the Communists, I said nothing; after all, I was not a Communist. When they locked up the Social Democrats, I said nothing; after all, I was not a Social Democrat. When they arrested the trade unionists, I said nothing; afterall, I was not a trade unionist. When they arrested the Jews, I said nothing; after all, I was not a Jew. When they arrested me, there was no longer anyone who could protest.
Agreed. Those brave Japanese who did protest their own military actions before WW2 were alienated, arrested, and assasinated, as depicted in Millieium Actress. However their neighbors are not always so edgy. A vice president of a former Japanese colony even thanked Japan for the occupation. 
Okay, back to the original topic... Works involve real historic figures, other than Japanese history in Meiji era: Adolf, by Osamu Tezuka, based on the rumor that spoiler[Adolf Hitler might have 1/4 Jewish ancestry]. Houshin Engi (manga) / Soul Hunter (TV): Loosely based on the famous Chinese fantasy novel (itself based on real history but added a lot of supernatural elements), this is a work about how Shang dynasty was fallen and the rise of Zhou dynasty. Works heavily inspired by historical elements: Juuni Kokki. Although the world is fantasy-based, the political and agricultural system is a direct copy of Chinese Zhou dynasty, created by Duke of Zhou, regent lord of the second king (China is not an empire yet until Chin dynasty) of Zhou. Serial Experiments Lain, on the spoiler[birth of Majestic Twelve, the secret investigative organization for alien contact in 1953. Its creation is also involved with Illuminati, the most famous conspiracy group.] If you have a US dollar bill, take a closer look on its back.
Last edited by dormcat on Fri Jun 25, 2004 8:44 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Ken Hayashi
 Posts: 752 Location: Singapore |
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Now this is all pretty deep and intellectual. I don't set academic standards for anime when it comes to anime dealing with history. Sure, Abunai, being in the profession, you would like to see historical accuracy. But to me anyway, anime is entertainment. I look at it from the personal views and experiences of the characters. What they see happening around them and happening to them as they become part of the process of events changing their world.
I don't expect anime to educate me about history. Nor do I cringe when historical accuracy is thrown out the window. Even if an anime denies the fact that a historical event took place, I'll just look at it as if the anime is taking place in an alternate universe. p.s., I'd love to pilot a giant robot too. It is a good start in my opinion, that some animes make a passing mantion of events that took place, mainly to, let's say, set the tone or give the viewers a background of the past. Maybe because the story or plot has something to do with how that "universe" has come to be due to past events, etc. Well, I just sit back and enjoy watching and stop thinking so much about deep, deep, intellectual stuff.
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Draky
Posts: 7 Location: Concord, CA |
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Wow! I have to admit, this thread is great! I love history and in preticular asian history!
I would like to thank everyone who's participating in this thread for the information. |
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