Forum - View topicAmerican Manga: Does it count?
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Elf474
 Posts: 100 Location: Behind You |
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Let's see. There are things like Ninja Highschool, Megatokyo, and Van Von Hunter which are made in the manga style. Then there are japanese titles made by Americans like some manga of Dirty Pair done by the same guy who does Empowered.
So does it matter where it's from? Can a manga be made in America and, in your opinion, still count as a manga? |
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Mr Adventure
 Posts: 1598 |
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I don't think it does. Anime/Manga isn't a 'Style' IMO. Its simply a description of where the material comes from (ex: the English world 'Manga' = Comics from Japan. Period. IMO) So if something just 'looks anime' it doesn't mate it Anime (see Avatar the Last Airbender, Teen Titans, that new Transformers toon, etc...)
That doesn't mean that American comics that are heavily influenced by Manga and Anime can't be good (I love Antarctic Press's Twilight X. That comic owns). They just aren't Anime. Especially seeing as most of them follow traditional American comic formating (single monthly issues, trade collections, etc...) instead of the classic Japanese weekly/monthly anthology model (which would own, if someone did that over here btw.) |
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ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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Well, this may not answer your question but...who cares?
I really don't think it's that big a deal. Manga is just a word. It doesn't indicate a level of quality, a specific style or anything else for that matter. A comic is what it is no matter what you call it. Personally I'd rather just call only comics from Japan manga. Anything else is far too subjective. You can then call stuff from elsewhere 'manga style' comics or something. Personally though, I avoid stuff in the manga style that isn't Japanese. There may be genuinely good ones but far too many seem to try too hard and just come across as lame imitators. |
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Mr Adventure
Posts: 1598 |
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This is pretty much my problem with 'Manga Style' comics from American (and Korea) creators. Most of them come across as simply lamn imitations of established Japanese troupes. Like they're cribbing from the 'real Japanese stuff' just to grab a piece of that big manga money pie. And that's just the art. Don't get me started on writers that just grab all the anime cliches they can find and throw them into a big pot and make crap stew out of it. Like doing anything actually original will eliminate their perceived built in manga audience. |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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Allow me to provide some different opinions: there are more and more Taiwanese shōjo manga artists whose story and art on par with or even better than their Japanese counterparts serialized in Ciao or Ribon. Their stories are very original, usually with some jokes that only local readers would understand. And the sales numbers have shown their successes. Not to mention that CJK languages share the same characters for "comics." Last edited by dormcat on Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Keonyn
 Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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You tell us. This is your topic, it is customary that you at least open your own discussion by providing your own opinion on the matter. This is a discussion forum, and if you're going to initiate a debate, you need to start the ball rolling with your own stance on the matter.
I'm going to let the OP's lack of any depth to the opening post slide for the time being. However, we haven't forgotten what happened the last time a thread debating this topic showed up and the mass that resulted. So let's try and keep this one more civil, because any hint of that again in this thread and we'll just have to lock it up before it gets that bad again. |
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Ktimene's Lover
 Posts: 2242 Location: Glendale, AZ (Proudly living in the desert) |
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I think the only time an American manga would be Princess Ai and this was even published in the Wings shoujo anthology.
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Rij
 Posts: 27 |
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It's manga if it's made in Japan. If it's made in some other place, it's either comic, manhwa, manhua or whatever. "American manga" is marketing language aimed at people who think anything is cool if it's Japanese. Or at the people who still think that all comics are about men in spandex suits.
But that's just a label for the origin of the product. It tells nothing about the content or quality of it. Does it count? Count for what? If it's enjoyable, who cares where it came from and what's it called. |
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Elf474
Posts: 100 Location: Behind You |
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I think if you can't tell the difference without looking them up then it shouldn't matter. I mean for example Van Von Hunter is great and made int he manga style, but done in America. In fact they won the first place in a contest for best new manga.
http://www.vanvonhunter.com/vvh207.html And what about when a Japanese guy works on a manga but lives in America? http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/223/40476.jpg What about the stuff that's kind of hard to quantify. I mean there are Japanese made manga for Witchblade, Star Wars/Trek, Labyrinth, and such. An anime based on the Chronicles of Riddick. Then you have American made movies and things based on anime like Megas XLR, the Matrix movies, etc. |
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HellKorn
Posts: 1669 Location: Columbus, OH |
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There is no such thing as "manga style." There are trends -- high use of decompression, BESM, certain visual cues -- but nowhere near all Japanese comics have these traits (and certainly not all mainstream manga has them). Saying that there is a "manga style" is false, and people who want to think that there is and that they can create it are making two really awful mistakes: 1) They're being exceptionally reductive. If your influences come at the most base things -- right-to-left format, those huge eyes, et cetera -- that are common in popular manga, then you most likely don't have a proper understanding of how comics can and should work. It's an imitation of superficiality. 2) They're also ignoring their own native comics. There are so, so, so, so many amazing North American comic books out there that cover as numerous genres and voices, yet they're ignored. People who think that all English comics deal with super heroes are just as bad as though who think that all manga is something like Dragon Ball Z or Naruto. That said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with influence and an understanding of how they work in order to make your own unique vision. Bryan Lee O'Malley's Scott Pilgrim is a pastiche of pop and nerd culture works, yet it's still identifiably his own vision and is one of the best on-going comics. "Manga," as an English loan word, simply means "Japanese comics," as "manwha" is to "Korean comics," "manhua" is to "Chinese comics," et cetera. |
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Zin5ki
 Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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Style plays no role in my definition of the word manga, as used as an English loanword. Aside the problems resulting from the subjectivity involved when comparing aesthetic similarities between different things, the extension of the word would become very broad and over-encompassing, if style was a necessary condition for its referents. I shall explain this: An adherent of manga denoting a particular style might cite graphic novel A as being a quintessential example of what a manga is, in virtue of its appearances. Then, for any other work B, B would also be a manga if it somehow shares A's stylistic qualities. So too would any C, if C also bears such a resemblance to B. So too any D, if resembling C, and so on. Let us assume that, in spite of these similarities, there are some differences between each work in this chain of qualification, e.g., they are each made by a different artist. Taking these minor differences between 'steps' into account, this progression may end up qualifying as a manga a work which bears no significant resemblance to A, but still resembles the work qualified before it. Let us call this problematic work N. In such a situation, the only stylistic solution would be to allow manga to denote both the distinct styles of A and N, on grounds that there is a natural 'metamorphosis' from the style of A to that of N via the citation of other works. Even if one accepts this, yet another progression from N to dissimilar style N2 would also be possible by a method akin to that relating A to N. As this should hopefully show, the potential number of distinct 'styles' such a word could denote in a stylistic approach can be conceived as limitless, unless one 'draws the line' when comparing works, which would be a seemingly arbitrary act. A quick counterargument to this could consist of noting that a stylistic definition needn't be made with reference to the style of any 'quintessential' work, but instead a doctrine of 'how things are to be drawn', to which qualifying works must adhere. This doctrine would need to be extremely rigid and meticulous however, in order to disqualify any works that diverge from it. Reaching a consensus on this 'stylistic guide' would be difficult. EDIT: I wrote most of this before I'd updated the thread to read HellKorn's post. |
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Elf474
Posts: 100 Location: Behind You |
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Trust me, I've published a book on this. As near as I can tell from years of serious research (since I'm published and have sold copies I'm a dedicated researcher, not an Otaku) there is an anime style. It varies from standard graphic novels and cartoons. Certain key points that seperate the anime style from others, byut that if used mean that it is all anime reguardless of the country of origin.
For example, look at the series Megas XLR. If it had been made exactly the same way, but produced in Japan it would be anime right? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-kYiDbG39s So why would country of origin matteR? |
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HellKorn
Posts: 1669 Location: Columbus, OH |
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Uh-huh, sure. Great credentials.
Define it. I'd also like to know if you have read and/or are familiar with most of the manga published in North America -- which offers plenty of variety -- as well as Japan. If not, then you have no position of authority.
Because that's the only objective measure for the word. |
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Elf474
Posts: 100 Location: Behind You |
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Depends onw hich series you're refering too. There are a lot of them.
Anyway let's see. There's a lot to this. It's why I wrote the book. But it all boils down to two things 1. The cliches. (You know some of these at least right?) 2. The art style. Once you've got those two things down I really don't see how it matters where it was made. Like i said up there Season 1 of Gargoyles was made in Japan. Season 2 in America. Then you've got Lady Death. Clearly an American style film based on American Comics. But made in Japan. And then there's stuff like Witchblade or Star Wars or Star Trek. All of which have been made into manga. In fact several Marvel comi characters including Spider-man have their own manga counterparts. Apparently in japan he comes from a clan of spider-ninjas. http://www.spiderfan.org/news/2002/images/mangacover.jpg Another good example would be Kingdom Hearts. Sora and his friends are clearly anime. While Donald, Goofy, and Mickey (and all the other Disney character) aren't. Right? |
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 9902 Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC |
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So, what exactly is your point and what's the purpose of this thread, Elf474? You seem unable to keep your own thread -- or even posts -- on focus; you just keep tossing links to covers/samples.
ISBN please. |
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