Forum - View topicChicks On Anime - Yaoi
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CCSYueh
 Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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I'll take sexist. For years it's been ok for guys to view gals as sex object whther they're actually watching them have sex or not. Hooters girls. Cheerleaders. Whatever. I do see yaoi in that light-entertainment for gals, though not necessarily at the level of Playboy. Most of us watch/read things in our leisure time that interest us. If it's not giving us enjoyment (& as someone who loves the History Channel stuff, documentaries on subjects one enjoys are adding to one's enjoyment as well as teaching one someting maybe), why watch it? Do most of us not HATE going to a movie & discovering it sucks? Many of us will walk out & demand our money back, right? It's not all gals. I love Pushing Daisies. The lead male is often the most annoying character, but it's well-told & has an interesting twist. The lead gal is on the annoyingly nice side, but not enough to really detract. The blonde probably pushes my buttons the most. The P.I. is just funny Supernatural & Reaper(& Reaper has been MIA) are the only other shows I watch. Both are guy-heavy. The Devil in Reaper is cool, though he's not someone I'd want as a friend. Sam, the lead male, is often a jerk & an idiot, but the rest of the cast are cool, particularly his girlfriend.
That IS you. I like Gravitation for the insanity. I loved Waru In fact, I lean heavily to what was formerly called "shonen ai" because it is often very, very funny. I lvoed the pissy brother in Challengers & it was hilarious when the couple finally decided to consumate their relationship & had to ask other people for advice on how to do it. I love the pent-up uke's reactions to the stories in Junjo. I could care less about the sex. I don't really recall any sex in All Nippon Air Lines, but I loved it. So I view yaoi as a good source of jokes that poke fun at sex just as I used to love jiggle titles (I love Satoru Akahori) because yeah, it is funny to see people squirm about sex. No, a character like Naru is another annoying chick for punching first any time her breasts are accidentally touched. But a lot of the humorous stuff is pretty low on explicit sex. However, life is tough. I like to laugh as much as possible when I'm on my own time. Yes, I heckle shows in my own home a lot.
I just got Your & My Secret 3 last night. Can't wait to read it. Have you been following it? It's interesting. I probably like a certain amount of gender bender, but Japan tends to go overboard on the loud, bossy gals. I find them annoying in real life. I find them annoying in stories. No nonsense gals are a different matter. I like a gal who knows what she wants & goes for it, but also respects that others have that right as well.
No, ther is no double standard there. Lina is mean to characters I like in the story. I said I liked Bulma & she's a bit manipulative. She's also pretty damned smart. When my daughter was small, she invariably enjoyed the bad guy. "Here, want a Nala shirt?" No. Scar. Oogie Boogie. Because bad guys often have a hell of a lot of fun even though we know they will pay for their crimes by the end of the story. Lina, last I checked, ISN'T the bad guy in Slayers. I do love Xellos playing both sides for his own ends. That doesn't say I'd want to know him in my life, but it is fun to watch. Gin is very similar to Xellos. Always smiling like the cat that ate the canary. As the secondary baddie, he gets to stand on the side & laugh at all the fun because it's not his plot. He's just along for the ride. I also love Akabane who I see as in the same vein as Gin. Ginji gets annoying with his moralizing so I sort of like Ban a tad more, though he gets too brash & annoying in his egotistical ways. I do also love Kazuki & Juubei. Aizen is just cool--fooled them all. And it's Sho Hayami. Sho Hayami has a delicious voice. I disliked the gals in Sailor Moon, but I do very much enjoy Wedding Peach. There's a slight difference int he way the gals are portrayed. The female lead in Dragon Knights was good, athough I liked Rath more. And I'll take Excel & Hyatt over Lina, Filia & Amelia(think that's it) any day. In fact, Excel saga has some pretty cool chicks in it Although they are written by a dude. Same for Integra & policegirl in Hellsing. I like them. So it's not blanket hatred of chicks in manga I disliked Shampoo, although Cologne has her moment. I hated Happosai. Akane ran up & down, but overall I probabluy liked her. I hated the money-grubbing sis & the nice one also got on my nerves, but the cook fiancee was cool(I haven't touched Ranma since it ended so I'm rusty). Gemna was horrid, though the Tenma dad as cool as anything. Happy all over the place now?
Sez the gal who was saying I needed to like Lina Inverse As I've pointed out, I find some male characters annoying. I find some female characters annoying. You're the one who seems to say I have to like them all when I've been saying I have started one too many shojo manga & been horridly disappointed in the path of least resistance the story took. I often find the lead gal insipid. The only reason I mentioned Hilton was yourr unceasing insistance women must like all other women or they're misogynists. I like Hillary Clinton as a strong woman & hated Sarah Palin as a spokespiece for the Religious Right.
No, they create different characters & stories. There are Clamp stories I like more than others based on the characters they've created to tell the tale. What's so hard to compehend about that?
And your mother never told you she didn't care what the other kids were doing, you're her daughter & she just wants to mold you into a working adult?
I also grew up in the 60's & 70's so women HAVE come a long way, baby. I still retain that view I grew up with the attitude that some of our own gender ARE working to hold us back. Like my sister-in-law who believes a woman's place is at a man's side & she must subject herself to his will. Really, nothing you say can burn my dislike for that sterotype out of my psyche because I know far too many "good religious women" who voted against the Equal Rights Amendment being altered to cover women. I find it as offensive as you seem to find my attitudes, but to me those women ARE traitors & I want as little to do with them as possible. Oh, and count me on the side of the seme. They tend to be drawn in the art style I prefer & they are the usual reason for my likeing or disliking yaoi. We don't all identify with the uke. |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16961 |
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Might as well dive in finally and stop simply lurking on this thread. I have a few complaints with Yaoi. Before I get into anything though here's a nice big disclaimer; everything I am about to say is based on my own personal experiences and opinions and not directed at anyone at all individually nor as a group.
1. I am sick and tired of yaoi fangirls. There the MOST annoying set of fans in the anime fandom IMO. They are the loudest, most obnoxious, childish, and generally unruly set of fans and this is not simply referring to the tweens and younger women. I have seen my fair share of older. For this case we'll say anyone 30 or over is the older crowd I am talking about, and no I do not consider that to be "old" at all but the most predominant age group of fans for yaoi are the younger (early 20's and below) age bracket. The fact I've seen women old enough to be mother's act like loud mouthed spoiled 10 year olds and fight (literally shoving) each other to get to "X" volume of "X" series is pathetic. The yaoi fangirls are the main group that also love those yaoi paddles. The next time I get hit with one on my ass I'm having the stupid SOB arrested for assault. No I am not joking either. Between the paddles, obnoxious yelling and OMG comments with high pitched screams that could rupture my eardrums I loath yaoi fangirls more then anyone else. Especially if you're dumb enough to mention how "X" character is not that hot. Dear God they will attack you like rabid raccoons. They give all fans of yaoi a bad name with their behavior and are simply obnoxious and I agree with many that they are the worst problem with the yaoi fandom. The other thing yaoi fangirls do that I can't stand is take their craving for yaoi and turn normally straight men into yaoi. As in all those tasteless yaoi art prints and crap in the DR and AA at cons. You know the ones. The ones with Sasuke and Naruto all over each other or Roxas and Axel nude on a bed together. I am tired of seeing normally straight characters put into these tacky and tasteless renditions to carry out their little fantasies. Sasuke and Naruto are not gay. Ban and Ginji are not gay. It's one thing to have your little fantasies about such things and another to make tasteless art prints or whatever over it. I'm sorry if I seem rude on that one but that just annoys me to no end. I'm tired of seeing countless normal male characters turned into and put into these yaoi fantasies. Mostly because they're 99% of the time completely sexualized and just tasteless. At least do something tasteful or artistic besides putting them naked together in some sexual position. And yes, I do not like the Yuri equivalent either of say Hinata getting naked with Rukia. If the characters are actually homosexual, or there's a huge suggestion towards it (as say with Soi Fon's affection for Yoruichi for example) then that's one thing. It's another when they're quite obviously straight. 2. I am not fond of the vast majority of yaoi because of how it portrays gay men. Most yaoi manga have them all as super good looking, dreamy, and always in states of undress and sexual situations. Because all gay men are like that right? To me I see most yaoi as degrading to gay men on a whole. Now before anyone jumps down my throat yes I feel the same about Yuri as well and yes I understand that it's also "fantasy." The problem is too many yaoi fans start assuming all gay men are like that and expect them to act that way. That's just rude and ignorant. On average more then Yuri fans Yaoi fans get too caught up in the fantasy. Again, see disclaimer at top as that is based on my experiences with fans of both. I'm sure Yuri fans do the same but it is to a far lesser degree then yaoi fans. 3. The God awful plots. Seriously...if you just want to see 2 men having sex rent a damn porn movie. I like good plots regardless of genre. I love Gravitation (and just to put this in context I am 26 year old heterosexual, for the most part lol, male) because I felt it had a good plot. It wasn't Oscar worthy sure but it wasn't just sex sex sex sex. The only difference I see in most yaoi (and yuri too) and hentai is tentacles. That's half serious and half joking btw. I do though seriously roll my eyes at most yaoi because it's so blatantly sexual. It's dripping with it and at the cost of good character development and plot. There many sub genres of anime that suffer from this downfall as well (harems for example) but yaoi really seems to take the cake often with just god awful stories and plots. It's always about the sex or putting them in sexual situations it seems like. As if real gay men only think about sex. Where's the yaoi manga/anime that has the guys buying groceries together? Where's the one with them going on vacation together or paying bills or having a normal life or some measure of a plot where they fight demons to save the world but do so in real clothing without constantly making sexual innuendos or winding up in compromising positions? And again, yes many other types of anime/manga suffer from that too but this thread is on yaoi so that's all I'm mentioning. Now despite my complaints I actually do not mind yaoi what so ever. I don't particularly seek it out nor is it a favorite genre/sub genre of anime/manga for me. But, I look for good plots and stories first and foremost. So if a yaoi title happens to have a good one I'd try it out. I also understand quite clearly the many reasons women enjoy it nor find it so inconceivable that women would like something more sexualized or pornographic or whatever word you wish to insert yourself. I simply have a lot of problems with the fangirls who give normal yaoi fans bad names and the dribble some people push out for yaoi titles. |
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dAngel
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See this is what I mean about yaoi allowing female readers to fantasize without feeling guilty. Personally, I do identify with the uke characters...not because they are supposed to be "feminine" but because they are often conflicted and repressed on some level. I relate to that. So if society perpetuates the idea that female sexuality is shameful, then yaoi can be a safe place to deal with those issues. There's no worry that it necessarily has to represent all women.
That's certainly a valid argument. It's not aimed at gay men and it does pander to female fantasy... though I can honestly say I don't expect real gay men to act like they do in these books. Just like real women aren't like moe girls or harem girls... and just like rape fantasies in romance novels aren't really about violence. I think certainly those participating in this thread are mature enough to understand the difference between characters and reality. I do agree loud obnoxious fangirls are annoying in any fandom. |
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poonk
 Posts: 1490 Location: In the Library with Philip |
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 ) goes to the actual character designer (IIRC) for the anime, not necessarily some amateur "fangirl" artist.
Edit: Got off my arse and looked it up-- Its actually an illustration book by Atsuko Nakajima, who also did character designs for the Trinity Blood, Princess Princess, & You're Under Arrest anime, as well as other things. |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar Posts: 16961 |
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Oh I know...I have the artbook with the images in them. The thing is the whole message through out the show was the S in Getbackers means they're never alone. The idea of being super close friends is pushed on you throughout the show and manga. Not to mention if you've seen any of either version you know without a doubt that Ban is quite heterosexual. A bit of a pig on the outside actually to be honest heh. |
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CCSYueh
Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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There's an review I read of GetBackers quite some time ago while I was waiting for the anime & manga to get licensed over here that commented one of the 2 authors is something of an unknown/hermit (like a lot of manga-ka seem to stay out of the limelight), but the other has spoken on interview shows & has been very blatant about KazukiXJuubei, but the review also pointed out that a lot of the terms linking Ban & Ginji are straight out of yaoi. Yes, I know Ginji & Ban both chase girls & Ban is an ass. They also are PRETTY devoted to one another in a way that DOES leave room for fantasy Frankly, I don't get the rabid anti-yaoi people out there such as yourself. The vehemence I've seen on the anti side about slash if as bad as any of the alleged screaming yaoi fangirls. Whether you notice it or not, there are scenes thrown into non-yaoi & non-yuri that seem to set the stage for pairings. It's almost as if the author knows s/he can boost sales putting guy A kissing-close to guy B. Was it Bleach 23 where we get a couple pages of a naked Matsumoto crouched over Orihime? No, they aren't DOING anything to suggest they would be a couple, but you know a hundred (or more) yuri fanboys died & went to heaven. There was a small last-page shot of Mayuri & Kenpachi in a recent Japanese edition. There is NO REASON ON EARTH for Kubo to draw a picture like that, though there ARE people out there who like that pairing. The authors do insert stuff. Trust me, they really do. You just aren't looking or don't know what to look for. I read stuff all the time & see it. Ban & Ginji are among the worst offensers. I never saw people pairing Ren & Horo Horo until we got deeper into the story & then I saw exactly where they got the idea. Not to mention Wooden Sword Ryo was always saying how he was looking for his Shaman Queen, but there was that trucker who showed up every time Ryo put his thumb out to hitch a ride. And trying to kiss Yoh. Oh, I really hate to tell you, my daughter rps yaoi all the time & several of the people she rps with are guys (yeah, mostly gay, but not all). She claims to be male at the rp sites she goes to & apparently she passes for guy-ish enough. One of her gay friends likes the KenpachiXMayuri pairing. |
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