Forum - View topicDo mispronunciations in dubs bother you?
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EricDent
 Posts: 997 Location: Georgetown, TX |
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Sometimes it bothers me (like in the Happy Lesson example you gave, I kept expecting them to pull out a bag of Cheetos...). Also in Sasami Magical Girls Club, they seem to pronouce her name Sauce-sami...
Most of the time I don't really notice it, unless it is really obvious. Of course then on the Japanese side you have some really bad Engrish stuff as well. |
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LuckySeven
 Posts: 587 Location: Georgia, USA |
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Even with what I just said in my last post, I'll admit I found it strange how they pronounced Sasami's name, and this was just from the trailer I saw. I'm not going to let it stop me from buying the show when I get a chance though. Again I found it strange since I'm a long time Tenchi Muyo fan from the old days when the VHS version came out at one episode per tape. But still its only strange, because I was used to hearing it said a certain way, it wouldn't be a deal breaker for watching the dub. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18391 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Boy, I had hoped this thread had gone away, since it's just the same old stuff again: whining about little imperfections in pronunciation and translation between two languages whose linguistic structure isn't very similar.
Ignoring for the moment that your word choice here makes it difficult to understand what you mean, does that mean you also nitpick on all of the times in Japanese dubs when seiyuu mangle English names? Or those English words they so love to use in announcing titles or battle attacks or in songs? Do those prevent the anime from having the right "feel" because they aren't dubbed properly? |
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Shiggity
 Posts: 367 Location: Boston, MA |
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...I don't mind when Japanese people speak English and they get it wrong. Many times English isn't their strongest subject. That's different from what I'm talking about. When an English voice actor says a clearly easy to say character name wrong, THAT'S what bothers me. It also bothers me how dubbed anime is so Americanized, and degraded. |
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Top Gun
 Posts: 4749 |
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...so Japanese actors/directors/writers get a free pass to butcher the English language, yet their American counterparts get railed on for a single mistake? It has nothing to do with which language is "easier." If you're using terms from another language, either get them right, or don't attempt to use them at all. Engrish is sometimes amusing and/or cute, but it fundamentally does speak of a phenomenal case of incompetence/apathy on the part of those responsible for it; the same is true of the reverse situation when it occurs (and I'd be willing to bet that it occurs far less frequently). I was just having a conversation about this topic with a friend of mine earlier tonight, how die-hard sub purists will point out the slightest dubbing gaffes while completely refusing to take to task (for example) the person responsible for "Arucard" as a total idiot. Also, 1995 called. It wants its anti-dub argument back. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18391 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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How is that different? Japanese isn't the strongest subject for most American VAs, either. So why doesn't that argument apply to them, too? And if that isn't what you're talking about, then what are you talking about? As for your complaint, keep in mind that there are distinct variances in syllable usage between English and Japanese, even for the same syllable. "Mi" always sounds like "mee" in Japanese (someone can correct me if I'm wrong) but it's more commonly pronounced like "meh" in English (or given as part of "mis") and thus can go either way. Use of accenting is also different between the two languages; Japanese tends not to put emphasis on particular syllables, while English uses it a lot. If you're not terribly familiar with Japanese language conventions like these then it makes something as seemingly simple as getting names like "Misaki" or"Haruka" consistently right a real challenge. Japanese speakers suffer similar problems when attempting to speak in English, too, although much of what creates "Engrish" is actually more an issue of not being able to get certain sounds right than incorrectly interpreting syllables. It's still problems getting the language right, though, so I don't see why that's a different case.
I agree with Top Gun here; you're several years behind the times on this complaint. Dubbed anime that is "Americanized and degraded" by the effort is quite rare these days. |
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abynormal
 Posts: 427 Location: Louisiana |
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Unless we're talking about 4kids. But considering the target audience and the material they usually import, most of their audience is too young to care whether a show is set in Tokyo or Los Angeles, or if a character's name is Haruko or Hanna. As for me, I usually don't care, except when a character's name is going to be said a LOT, usually while shouting. Best example I can think of is Kusanagi from Blue Seed shouting "KAEDEEEE!" except it sounds more like "KATIEEEEE!" It does help to get the pronunciation of a name right when you're going to be saying it frequently. |
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living_puppet
 Posts: 13 |
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Are we talking obvious mistakes in pronunciation or accents? No, it doesn't really bother me. In an English dub I expect to hear little differences in speech, such as the way names are pronounced, and different syllables emphasized. Just like when I'm watching subs with the original Japanese, I expect to hear English words pronounced with a more Japanese accent. An obvious mistake might distract me for a second, but as long as they are close enough I don't worry about it.
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Shiggity
Posts: 367 Location: Boston, MA |
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Key, first of all, my Japanese isn't fluent, but I have a general understanding of how words are pronounced, as well as a general understanding of their grammar etc. This whole issue bothers me because when a Japanese name is said incorrectly it doesn't have the same effect as the Japanese version does. You can say "It doesn't really matter as long as they get the names right..." but it bothers me when it's consistently wrong.
And second, I know how to pronounce Misaki (Mee Sah Kee), and Haruka (Hah Loo Kah). I'm very good with languages, and if I were to spend even a few months in Japan I'd be very good at it. abynormal, thank you!! You hit the nail on the head. That's EXACTLY what I meant. In Inuyasha Kagome's (Kah Goh Meh) name is CONSISTENTLY pronounced as "Kah Goh May" and that peeves me. Why does they pay more respect to Sango's character and say her name properly and not do the same for Kagome? Yes, you can say that I'm "overreacting" or what have you, but that's what kind of fan I am. I like hearing things the way they were meant to be heard. Very few dubs have met that expectation with me. The Haruhi dub is one of those few, though I still prefer it in Japanese. living_puppet, that's a good point as well. And that's partially what I was trying to get at in my argument here. |
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JacobC
ANN Contributor
 Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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I really don't understand where you're coming from, Shiggity. I mean, it does annoy me when there are pronunciation issues with Japanese names, mostly when the story is very Japanese in presentation. Fruits Basket bugs me a little (Kuh-goooo-rah instead of Kah-guh-rah. Kee-yo instead of Kyo) and now that I'm watching Utawarerumono, I hear some more uncomfortable forced syllables. Actually, Fruits Basket is also guilty of retranslating Japanese terms like kotatsu or takoyaki to avoid cultural confusion. The dub is still excellent, though, but it's from a time when Funi was more free to Americanize without backlash. Now it's insulting, but in the DBZ days, maybe not.
But I find it equally irksome when I'm watching an anime in Japanese and they butcher the English terms. This is compounded by the fact that English has become something of a Japanese fad, if not a trend even, so there's a lot of "Engrish" in anime. I watch BECK and the "English-speaking" asian-americans pull me out of the story because the inflection is terrible and the acting style doesn't translate, much less pronunciation being a problem. FMA has a great dub, and it's a good thing too, because listening to "Arufonsu," "Edowado" and "Masutangu" all day makes me giggle, I'm sorry. The ED to Spice and Wolf still makes me laugh at the terrible pronunciation and ridiculous translated lyrics. (There are some lines that sound like they were going for a distinct English meaning and picked the wrong word.) I'm more likely to be impressed by superb pronunciation in English or Japanese than the reverse. It's just worth a guffaw if it's bad, but I really give props when it's good, like the Funi release of Rumbling Hearts, or the numerous songs of Maaya Sakamoto. A more knowledgable language-studies person could probably explain this better than me, but here are the two main differences between English and Japanese that cause pronunciation issues. 1. Different alphabets. Something is bound to be lost in translation when the Japanese alphabet is based on nearly mathematical phonetics, and ours is a bastardization of Germanic and Romantic languages that requires loads of memorization to connect a sound with a letter. The hiragana and/or katakana symbols that any word in Japanese can be broken down to are all one phonetic sound. (ha, ri, shu, cha, and so on.) It's very easy to put them together and know exactly how a word is pronounced, or how a spoken one is spelled. I don't think the Japanese have spelling bees, it would be a stupid idea. 
Now try saying "W." No, don't say "double-yoo." Say "W." No, that's "wuh." Can't do it, can you? We invent names (Double-yoo, Kay, Eff, Cue, and so on) for our letters because they don't have a sound that can be verbally expressed until they are matched with another consonant or vowel, and then we have all these rules and all these exceptions to them. A spelling bee is a real challenge (I loved them in elementary school. Only "sport" I ever won.) So when they translate the words into Japanese, they break down what may not even stand as a sound by itself into a full phonetic syllable, and we silly English-speakers try to apply our complex rules to a simpler game of language and, when everyone's understanding of those rules and exceptions is different because this isn't English and you can't do that, you hear Kah-goh-May and Kuh-goh-mee, and whatever mess. 2. As Key mentioned, English is "punched," while Japanese is "metered." Sound is only one part of pronunciation, but rhythm is equally vital, and the rhythm or our two languages is completely opposite. Think of it this way: Shakespeare wrote in iambic pentameter, right? That means lines of ten syllables that alternate with a hot, accented syllable and a gentler, unaccented one. Well, Japanese is the pentameter part, (metered syllables) and English is the iambic, (ACCent HOW you TALK.) Japanese is nearly mathematical in the placement of its syllables, and none of them are accented more than the other. Differences in tone are marked by raising or lowering the pitch of your voice, rather than barking or sucking a syllable's volume like we do. So if Japanese is a river of speech, English is an ocean wave. That's why a lot of people think anime sounds "natural." It's calm and flat, and full of subtle intonation, but it might not sound good in English, to be honest. By contrast, our English way of speaking may make an anime sound more melodramatic, whether this is true or not, because what sounded flat and beautiful in the sub is just as emotional in the dub but MORE chopPY when THE actORS get EXciTED! |
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Top Gun
Posts: 4749 |
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...no one's "not paying respect" to anyone here. It's Richard Cox/Moneca Stori/the rest of the cast using a somewhat long 'a' sound in place of a probably-more-correct schwa in the final syllable of the word. It's a simple vowel drift. That's it. It doesn't affect the dub's translation, it doesn't change the overall performance, and it shouldn't affect anyone's enjoyment of the series in the least. If that tiny little nitpick is seriously bothering you to such a huge degree, then do yourself a favor and don't watch the dub. The rest of us who aren't obsessive-compulsive about such things will manage "Kah Goh May" just fine. (Well, whether one can manage Kagome no matter how her name is pronounced is an item that's perhaps up for debate, but that's another topic...) |
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Shiggity
Posts: 367 Location: Boston, MA |
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I don't watch the dub at all. You're missing my point entirely.... Let me rephrase: when I see clips of Inuyasha in English, I hate it how they say Kagome's name. There, happy? -_-;; |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18391 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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So in other words, you're making a big deal out of a mispronunciation in a dub you don't listen to anyway? Seems kinda pointless to me. . . |
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Shiggity
Posts: 367 Location: Boston, MA |
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...I was just using that instance as an example because it was the one I could think of quickly when I posted my initial post to this thread. I disklike dubbing as a whole, but that one bothers me the most. |
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Elfen12
 Posts: 479 Location: Bay Area |
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Why's that, if you don't mind my stepping in and asking. I'm glad that they dub, otherwise i'd have to take a buncha japanese classes (which i will probably do in the future anyway), have 2 languages on my hands, and that'd be a pain. Of course that's not my reason, but yeah, if you woudln't mind telling me why, i'm rather interested, i've not heard an opinion like this before. -Elfen12- maybe you wanan tell me in a PM if you intend on explaining, since it's a little off topic? |
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