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Gurren Lagann bilingual DVD?


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angel_lover



Joined: 22 Apr 2005
Posts: 645
Location: UK
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:49 am Reply with quote
Richard J. wrote:
Now, that's not scientific nor does it constitute any significant statistical data or anything else.

Quite so, you've demonstrated correlation but not causality - clearly people who don't like sub-only DVDs won't like fansubs either. Anyway, getting a DVD release out quickly (and I mean very quickly) is good because it removes one of the main excuses for downloading. That said, I think legal downloads are the best option currently. As for GL, I've bought the R1 sub DVDs, but if Beez can do a good job with the R2 UK version packaging then I'll buy that as well.
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BladeDragoonZETA



Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 586
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 4:57 am Reply with quote
EricDent wrote:
Special Edition (metal box)


can you point me to this one?

I don't see a TSRI listing for it.
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Labbes



Joined: 09 Feb 2008
Posts: 890
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 5:51 am Reply with quote
BladeDragoonZETA wrote:
EricDent wrote:
Special Edition (metal box)


can you point me to this one?

I don't see a TSRI listing for it.


I guess it is this one: http://www.rightstuf.com/cgi-bin/catalogmgr/bHFz5R-h2BOBIUeD4j/browse/item/81423/4/0/0
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Zalis116
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Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 6897
Location: Kazune City
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 6:44 am Reply with quote
walw6pK4Alo wrote:
It probably comes down to the idea that the militant dub-haters don't even want to have the dub present on the DVD, or think that they're in part paying for a dub in any way. I do like some dubs, but it's usually rare and it greatly depends on the series. What they want basically is cheap R1 DVDs that support the industry while taking place of their fansubs. They would hate it if even a dollar per DVD was to cover the cost of the dub, I've met people like that too.
I still just don't understand this mentality. Anime's cheaper than it's ever been, and some dual-language series like Fantastic Children and Noein even came out at $19.99 MSRP, same price as sub-only. With the right TRSI sales, complete collections for 26-episode series can come down to $27. Are you telling me that for some people, $1.04 per episode is too much to pay if there happens to be an English dub on there? Now, I can understand disliking English dubs. I used to hate them just as much as the next person out there in InternetLand. But when I bought DVDs, I thought of it as buying the show, the anime itself, not the language options. I just simply didn't watch the English track. Besides, the popularity that anime gained from mass exposure via English dubs probably helped subsidize more shows coming out at cheaper prices compared to the VHS days, so imo that's another reason not to resent the existence of English dubs. Plus, who's to say where that money goes? Maybe the some of the profit Media-Blasters makes on a sub-only Simoun DVD goes towards funding the English dub for Genshiken 2.
paludis wrote:
It does annoy me having to switch to subs every time I put in a DVD, so I for one would prefer earlier sub only releases, and as walw6pK4Alo says I don't want to have to pay for a dub since I have no interest in the dub anyway. I think it's a great idea to release the sub only version cheaper and earlier and then release the dual track disc later on. Surely then everyone is happy.
Think of it from the perspective of someone not intimately familiar with anime, who may have picked up the DVD for some reason or another, like seeing a few episodes on TV. Most "mainstream entertainment" viewers throw in DVDs, press play, and watch the content without messing around in menus beforehand. If that DVD starts up in an unfamiliar language + subtitles, it could turn that casual viewer / potential new consumer away from the whole anime medium. I don't think it's such a huge sacrifice for us as the hardcore to press a few buttons so that anime can be accessibly presented to a wider audience. FWIW, all of Rightuf/Nozomi's DVDs are Japanese+subtitles and default. Additionally, I'm pretty sure that DVD players can be set to default to certain language options, which will work for some companies' releases depending on how the tracks are labeled.

My Star Wars DVDs have Spanish and French language tracks on them. I don't plan on watching the French track (though I did watch ep 2 in Spanish), and I bet most other Star Wars fans in the US don't either. But do they get up in arms just because the DVDs happen to have additional language options?

Something else I've never understood is the demand for faster, earlier releases from the segment of the population that's already seen the given series during the initial fansub run. Why the hurry? What does it matter if the R1 release comes out 3 months or 3 years after the Japanese broadcast? I've got some shows that I last saw in 2004 and haven't re-watched. If a show is high-quality enough to be worth buying at time T, why is it less worth buying at time T + X? To do another domestic entertainment parallel, season 11 of The Simpsons aired in 2000-2001, and there's still no DVD release, despite the lack of translation/dubbing in the process. I'm not saying people should wait for the R1 release for first viewing; just treat it like any other television product, where there's [TV broadcast (fansubs in this case)] -> X length of time -> DVD release -> buy if worthy.

And is everyone truly happy with the early sub-only + later dual-language strategy? What about retailers who don't want to stock confusing multiple versions of the same show, and buyers who unwittingly pick up something only to find that there's no English audio on the disc and no English audio forthcoming for another 6 months? That means a lot of returns, exchanges, hassles, and headaches on all sides. And the easiest way out of that for retailers is to not carry sub-only, thereby reducing sales and making it less worthwhile for companies to press those sub-only discs. This might ironically lead companies to raise the price on sub-only (or have it equal or narrowly less than the dual-language) in order to make the same profits on fewer sales for a niche product.
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angel_lover



Joined: 22 Apr 2005
Posts: 645
Location: UK
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 7:57 am Reply with quote
Zalis116 wrote:
Something else I've never understood is the demand for faster, earlier releases from the segment of the population that's already seen the given series during the initial fansub run. Why the hurry?

1) Quality (the subs may not be all that much better, but the picture should be)
2) The DVD release is (generally) uncensored
3) My PC's disk array is only 1.5TB, and I don't trust DVD writers Rolling Eyes

Not to mention that I've (ahem) "borrowed" something and I want to pay for it as soon as I can. In these days of tight cash-flow, surely the sooner a property can be monetarised, the better it is for the licensor?
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BladeDragoonZETA



Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 586
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 1:26 pm Reply with quote
Labbes wrote:
BladeDragoonZETA wrote:
EricDent wrote:
Special Edition (metal box)


can you point me to this one?

I don't see a TSRI listing for it.


I guess it is this one: http://www.rightstuf.com/cgi-bin/catalogmgr/bHFz5R-h2BOBIUeD4j/browse/item/81423/4/0/0


that corresponds to a different one in his list (note links added for simplicity)
EricDent wrote:

Special Edition (metal box)
Box Set (2 vols. and cool stuff)
2 DVD set
and of course 2 individual DVDs. (1, 2)
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Richard J.



Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 3367
Location: Sic Semper Tyrannis.
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 3:54 pm Reply with quote
Maidenoftheredhand wrote:
I think you might be remembering something incorrectly because Bandai never said anything like this.
I'm probably just remembering an article for a different series or something. I have to wrong every once in a while right? Wink

angel_lover wrote:
Quite so, you've demonstrated correlation but not causality - clearly people who don't like sub-only DVDs won't like fansubs either.
Right, those who prefer a particular language will have issues with a release that doesn't have the language they prefer on it. It's a given. Still, I don't see corresponding "I don't like Japanese so I don't buy bi-lingual releases cause of sub-tax" type of comments. Maybe I'm missing them but while there seem to be sub fans who virtually explode in apoplectic rage that dubs even exist, I've yet to see a dub fan who exhibits that same level of anger against subs.

I've frequently seen "I'm a dub fan so I'm not buying the sub-only discs" posts but not "this DVD is not dub-only, I refuse to pay sub-tax!" posts. Again, it's not proof, but it makes a person seriously wonder sometimes about some fans. It does seem from the anecdotal evidence I've observed that sub-fans are less open-minded than dub- fans. While I've seen dub fans say they watched a series all the way through in Japanese, the majority of posts I've read from the more militant sub-fans have included statements that they watched either one or less than one episode in English. That's not even time to get used to the voices if you were watching the show for the very first time.

I agree with you that legal downloads are the best option. Personally, I think a lot of the issues Zalis116 pointed out make the idea of sub-only and bi-lingual releases happening together an unreasonable system. (From what people say who lived through the era, it didn't work very well with VHS.)

The way I see things, sub fans have so much less to complain about than dub fans though. Aside from kids shows that have been edited for release here, there are virtually no dub-only releases while there are more sub-only releases, most if not all of which are unedited. The vast majority of bilingual releases are completely unedited and include the Japanese track with subs. Many DVD extras are sub-only.

And, if nothing else, sub fans can always use the illegal fansubs and bootlegs, which usually only include dubs if the show has already been licensed and released in R1.

Wanting to see English dubs wiped away from the DVDs entirely just seems to me to be some sub fans way of attacking fans like me who just don't share their love of the Japanese language track.
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EricDent



Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 997
Location: Georgetown, TX
PostPosted: Sun Sep 21, 2008 11:39 pm Reply with quote
Oops, sorry about that. I thought the 2 DVD set looked like it had some special box for it. Embarassed

BTW the DVDs come out 11-11-08.

Not a really fun date for me.

Cause it was my sister & grandfathers b-day (along with the Veterans Day stuff), so it kind of gets me down a bit.
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Igneous42



Joined: 23 Sep 2008
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:14 am Reply with quote
walw6pK4Alo wrote:
Interesting enough, it seems like the Hybrid DVDs are rather affordable, and this is probably in thanks to the cheap sub-only DVDs selling more. I hope we see more releases like that for the dub-hating crowd.


I only hate bad dubs, which gurren lagann sadly is. It's my favorite anime but I was so disipointed with it's dub. Honestly I don't know why I'm even waiting for the dub version before I buy it because I'll never watch the dub. I guess it's because there might be a small chance that someone I know won't watch it unless it's in english. It's an anime that can't be missed.
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BladeDragoonZETA



Joined: 31 Jan 2008
Posts: 586
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 12:08 pm Reply with quote
Igneous42 wrote:
I only hate bad dubs, which gurren lagann sadly is.
We must be watching different dubs cause the one I'm watching sounds really good
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Top Gun



Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 4755
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:44 pm Reply with quote
If you consider Gurren-Lagann's dub to be "bad," then you might as well give up on trying dubs in general.
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