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This Week in Anime - Middle Earth, Circa 1978


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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 5945
Location: Virginia, United States
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2024 10:56 am Reply with quote
The perpetual question of what is classified as anime. With the mainstream popularity of anime, and everyone doing their own thing with it, the lines have blurred. Instead we are left with an impossible debate. It is almost like the Planet Pluto. Whole generations were educated that Pluto was a planet, then they changed the definition of what planets were. Personally, I think they should have given us a bone, and termed Pluto as one of the nine 'Classical' planets of the Solar System. But instead they went for the hard kill.

For me anime is what I watched in the Eighties and Nineties. If you deviate too much from that, it is not really anime (for me). Anime is no longer in its remote little Garden of Eden anymore, but is now in its Wild West phase on the open range. Where everyone can claim their own little piece of the pie. Debate is practical pointless now. There is no anime International Astronomical Union (IAU) to classify what is anime. Wouldn't matter anyway, cause anime is mainstream popular, and everyone wants the cachet of anime.

If you want to call Rankin Bass animated movies, anime, there is no one to stop you. There is only the personal opinions of the fans and the glazed eyes of those who want to make money.
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residentgrigo



Joined: 23 Dec 2007
Posts: 2611
Location: Germany
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2024 11:49 am Reply with quote
I slept on what the film reminded me of the most and ended up with The Promised Neverland S2. A more extreme case of the competent to cliff notes example as that show fell apart during ep 3. This film is mostly serviceable till about the 90-minute mark.

American Pop is Bakshi´s one good film.
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Beatdigga



Joined: 26 Oct 2003
Posts: 4625
Location: New York
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2024 12:05 pm Reply with quote
I’m sure Tolkien scholars have written numerous essays on Tolkien’s interpretation of love, both platonic and romantic and how they may have contrasted with his pal C.S. Lewis’s thoughts on the subject as he wrote in his book, the well, The Four Loves. I’m also sure that there’s a lot of equally fascinating and vast discussions to Tolkien’s view of heroism and masculinity and how they don’t find themselves at odd with emotions unlike a lot of older, more stoic heroes from his contemporaries. It’s especially notable when you remember a lot of Tolkien’s work came out the same time as the popularity of pulp fiction and their focus on stoic heroes who rejected overt shows of emotion. But I don’t think anyone is interested in a dissertation that big on a message board.

That all being said, I think it’s admirable that none of the adaptations despite omitting or shortening material (except maybe the Rankin Bass Return of the King, never saw that one) find themselves changing Tolkien’s tone. Despite the variances from Peter Jackson’s take, neither feels out of place with the books. It’s part of my frustration with wholesale stories made out of tiny pieces of appendixes. “Is this Tolkien, in tone?”
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FishLion



Joined: 24 Jan 2024
Posts: 257
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2024 3:28 pm Reply with quote
Beatdigga wrote:
. I’m also sure that there’s a lot of equally fascinating and vast discussions to Tolkien’s view of heroism and masculinity and how they don’t find themselves at odd with emotions unlike a lot of older, more stoic heroes from his contemporaries. It’s especially notable when you remember a lot of Tolkien’s work came out the same time as the popularity of pulp fiction and their focus on stoic heroes who rejected overt shows of emotion. But I don’t think anyone is interested in a dissertation that big on a message board.


I would be, I think those sort of discussions are fascinating. I especially think it's interesting how Frodo's empathy and compassion arguably saved the day by allowing Gollum to be there so that he could fall into Mt. Doom with the ring. It's really hard to find any book that old where the hero is not only physically weaker than most of his companions but also displays strong emotions and even wins because of deeply loving those around him, both his lifelong friend and the stranger that plots against him. He can't win without the war efforts of the more traditional combat ready heroes doing their part, but they can't win without him either and he is the one that finally gets the ring to its final resting place.
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6436
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2024 3:50 pm Reply with quote
TarsTarkas wrote:
The perpetual question of what is classified as anime. With the mainstream popularity of anime, and everyone doing their own thing with it, the lines have blurred.
For me anime is what I watched in the Eighties and Nineties. If you deviate too much from that, it is not really anime (for me). Anime is no longer in its remote little Garden of Eden anymore, but is now in its Wild West phase on the open range. Where everyone can claim their own little piece of the pie. Debate is practical pointless now. There is no anime International Astronomical Union (IAU) to classify what is anime. Wouldn't matter anyway, cause anime is mainstream popular, and everyone wants the cachet of anime.

If you want to call Rankin Bass animated movies, anime, there is no one to stop you. There is only the personal opinions of the fans and the glazed eyes of those who want to make money.


Again, I'm not going to go on the topic "is it anime? how and what is the definition of anime?". I'm not going to go off topic over this. I will agree that the definition of anime become blurred, and you're not wrong TarsTarkas. I'll end this post by sharing this video from Kenny Lauderdale that explain the definition of anime is stretched over the decade, it's a good video and worth watching if you're a anime scholar/academic.

TarsTarkas, or anyone on ANN on this topic thread want to talk to me about how we define the definition of anime, my PM is open and I'll welcome anybody on this forum that want to openly talked to me about the definition of anime get blurred. I'll not post anymore on this topic given that I don't want to derail the topic. I'll be available on the PM, this is my last post on this topic thread.
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Piglet the Grate



Joined: 25 May 2021
Posts: 780
Location: North America
PostPosted: Wed Dec 11, 2024 10:55 pm Reply with quote
Top Gun wrote:
It's a sort of platonic relationship that comes up very rarely (if ever) in modern fiction, compounded by the fact that Sam was Frodo's manservant, a concept that doesn't really exist anymore. (Our closest comparison would probably be the bond that forms between fellow soldiers who gone through inexplicable horrors together.)....


More specifically a batman (orderly) and his officer.

J.R.R. Tolkien wrote:
My Sam Gamgee is indeed a reflection of the English soldier, of the privates and batmen I knew in the 1914 war, and recognized as so far superior to myself.


FishLion wrote:
I especially think it's interesting how Frodo's empathy and compassion arguably saved the day by allowing Gollum to be there so that he could fall into Mt. Doom with the ring.


Fall?

J.R.R. Tolkien in Letter 192 wrote:
Frodo deserved all honour because he spent every drop of his power of will and body, and that was just sufficient to bring him to the destined point, and no further. Few others, possibly no others of his time, would have got so far. The Other Power then took over: the Writer of the Story (by which I do not mean myself), 'that one ever-present Person who is never absent and never named'...


This can be argued (but of course some dissent) that Eru Ilúvatar pushed Gollum over the edge into the lava of the Sammath Naur.
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Carpe Noctem



Joined: 15 Dec 2024
Posts: 1
PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2024 2:23 pm Reply with quote
Just came her to say, as a Bakshi fan (Wizards, Fritz later in life as an adult, and LotR):

FRODO LIVES!
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