Forum - View topicNEWS: The Ancient Magus' Bride Manga's Return Gets Simultaneous English Release Using AI Translation
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That Little Rapscallion
Posts: 58 |
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I remember seeing a similar comment made being directed towards a review of a manga that went into such lengthy detail on why they dislike a certain element in a particular show, specifically age gap romances in shoujo and why they were bad. And their response was that there's nothing wrong with having passion and caring about things. A medium they love having things they don't like in it is worth fighting for if they feel they can inact change through their voice and concern. I think that's an acceptable answer to why someone might care so much about something like a comic. Overall I would say "why do you care so much" is a bit dismissive and in this case moving the goalposts. It's essentially changing the discussion from "This isn't happening" to "Ok, it is happening, but it's not that big of a deal that it is happening". People are obviously passionate about this subject, whichever stance they have on the matter, considering how popular this thread is. I don't think passion for art is something to raise an eyebrow at. Some people will naturally be apathetic about issues that don't affect them personally, but not everyone has that luxury. |
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flamemasterelan
Posts: 486 |
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Nope. There's a very big difference between criticizing media for having elements you find problematic or even dislike, and hoping an entire industry of workers becomes unemployed because three people on Twitter gloated about pissing fans off with their translations. Not to even mention the manifesto of the radicalized future terrorist a page back and the glee at seeing a translator being harassed on Twitter because she wasn't happy to see this announcement. |
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Bisuketto
 Posts: 153 Location: Middle America |
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There is no hate. Only recognition on why people feel the way they do. It’s the localizers own fault why people have no apathy for them. Especially when they gloated about it. |
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ATastySub
Past ANN Contributor
 Posts: 673 |
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Everyone recognizes why you “feel the way you do” as you put it. It’s recognizing that it’s vastly disproportionate and ridiculously not thought out, and that it’s exactly the reason you can’t be taken seriously. Everyone Sephiroth posting doesn’t prove they have they a valid point, it just proves that there are multiple people posting ridiculous shit because they’re divorced from reality. That doesn’t magically make their insular fantasy war against an entire facet of work real. It just means there’s a lot of gullible children or man-children that have been sucking on some bad sewage pipes for their information about the world. |
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Cardcaptor Takato
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aereus
Posts: 576 |
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The fact you still insist on using the term localizer instead of translator says you clearly still have a chip on your shoulder though. There are absolutely some bad translators and ones that have an agenda, but it's hardly so many you need to use a loaded term with derogatory implications to refer to all translators by. |
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aereus
Posts: 576 |
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I think it's also important to consider when you're arguing for something from a non-Japanese cultural perspective, and it's unreasonable to expect someone from another country/culture to bend their writing style to your values. It's okay to not align values-wise with all material from another culture. That's fine. |
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Top Gun
 Posts: 4735 |
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I'm not saying don't care about things, I'm saying keep things in proper perspective and care about the things that actually matter. If you're seriously bent out of shape because a translator dared to use terms like "sus" or "mainsplaining," and then posted about it on Twitter, you really need to step back and think about what's actually worth your anger, because that ain't it. And in a broader sense, if your idea of translation is making a literal one-to-one copy of words from one language into another, then quite frankly you don't know what you're talking about. The goal of a good translation is to convey the same experience that a reader in the original language would have. That may mean translating slang terms or idioms in that language to equivalents in the target language, so that the original sense of the text is conveyed. That doesn't mean creating a hyper-literal transliteration that sucks all of the soul and spirit out of the original work. |
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Bisuketto
Posts: 153 Location: Middle America |
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You’re right, the term that should be used is dispoiler. But, to your point the reason localizer is used is because they ARE NOT translators. They actively go against the spirit of what they should be doing. What is amazing is people who are defending have yet to acknowledge the reason there is a “backlash” or no support for this situation is the actions of the few who have led to this. It isn’t one or two bad apples. It’s been getting worse every year. And they are bragging about it. Actual translators should have been policing and attempting to correct this behavior. Instead, they circled the wagons to defend that behavior demonizing the fans and community. It takes a simple 5 minutes to see how more common this has become. THIS is why there is no apathy, no sympathy. You failed to keep your house in check, so now that there is a system which will be cheaper and then potentially get better why would anyone who was demonized by this group care. If you can’t do your job correctly, then a system which likely will start out worst and get better is a more palatable solution—because they obviously won’t do it themselves. *grammar edit* |
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Cardcaptor Takato
Posts: 5059 |
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Bisuketto
Posts: 153 Location: Middle America |
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Yes demeaning reading comprehension, how very noble of you. You’re doing exactly what lead to this situation. Question for you: why are the localizers so afraid of this if they have nothing to fear about presenting a quality product. Why does there to your option “vocal minority “ so upright about this now. Seems to me there’s actually a reason for this and they know their actions might have gone too far (however, I doubt it due to the hubris they’re presenting even now.) Especially with people like you excusing their behavior. You have yet to answer anything or explain away their behaviors. Only straw-man, and but what about or what if’s. Time will tell, but the customers are the ones who are right not self righteous revealers of truth to the unwashed masses. The creators themselves are starting to embrace this option—the creator of ancient magus bride themselves. A couple more recalls and updates are all that’s needed. And the cheaper option of doing away of the liability of these people will seem to be more costly then the “vocal minority” opposed to AI. Are there innocent translators which will be hurt, yes. But as the saying goes, the few bad spoil the batch. Instead of excising these blights they were allowed to fester and even encouraged. They cannot be removed soon enough and I will be glad for it—actions have consequences, and a learning moment needs to occur. |
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flamemasterelan
Posts: 486 |
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There is no backlash. There's like ten culture warriors in this thread who have deluded themselves into thinking they're more important than they are. If this problem was as widespread as you seem to think it is, we'd be hearing new stories every day, but we're not. Thousands of Japanese games, anime, manga, etc. are getting translated every year with no major complaints, yet I have to listen to you guys give three examples that are the same frigging woman, one example that included the translator saying that editorial changed what she wrote after the fact, and whining about Twitter. And as far as "no support," you currently have four people arguing against you in a thread that's 6 days old and the majority of posters here have been anti-machine translations. Please, stop deluding yourself. You are the minority.
Capitalism doesn't value a quality product. It values a cheap product, regardless of its quality. Just five second of thought would have led you to the most obvious answer.
Ooh, dehumanizing your opponents by comparing them to disease. Always a sign of a rational and reasonable person. |
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Cardcaptor Takato
Posts: 5059 |
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flamemasterelan
Posts: 486 |
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On the one hand, thank you so much for this phrase. On the other hand, I can't read these posts without hearing Those Chosen By The Planet now:
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aereus
Posts: 576 |
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The problem is the base level of quality the translation starts at before QC/editing is lower than with a normal translator. It's already worse off for starting with MTL regardless of QC skills. The only way they could compensate, would be to essentially re-translate the majority of it, which defeats the purpose and speed gains of using MTL. So it's basically sacrificing quality for speed. And those sacrificed TLs will ultimately be used for the physical volumes as well, so everyone is worse off. |
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