Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: After the Rain
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Gina Szanboti
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It was his responsibility as the adult to slam the door in her face and leave her outside in a typhoon. |
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Panino Manino
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I give up, after this episode (#8) I can't defend this anymore, they're not even trying to hide.
Worse, they're making Kondo's pedophile act to be something virtuous and courageous. Sickos. |
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#Verso.Sciolto
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In other words, we can take cultural references explicitly identified in-universe as well as mentioned in commentary here. Cultural references familiar to the original target audience. Whose Botchan? (After Episode 8.) |
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Panino Manino
Posts: 748 |
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The New Files, episode 12, "Two in Karuizawa", same as last time.
Again, the "cultural reference in-universe" says you're wrong. |
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#Verso.Sciolto
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Botchan?
Other works works already referenced in the manga and/or in this adaptation of 恋は雨上がりのように - its title translated here as After the Rain. To return to this line of thought from the episode three review which compelled me to reply:
By a mangaka and animators who each in turn chose what to depict and how to depict it, from source materials. Akutagawa's literary works appeared in commentary fairly early on here. Rashomon. Not yet explored to our satisfaction, neither in-universe nor in commentary. Same goes for Patlabor another early reference. I asked before how Akira Tachibana might differ from Shinobu Nagumo - in still images and over the arc of the various Patlabor adaptation series. Previously 二人の軽井沢 (Futari no Karuizawa) was selected as a suggested frame of reference for the characters in the various different series. How does that single episode, of 機動警察パトレイバー2 (a title translated as Patlabor: The New Files), fit within the various Patlabor adaptations? That singled out episode and its events -perhaps- a departure from other depictions of 南雲 しのぶ (Shinobu Nagumo) - before and since. To recognise her in images does not necessarily mean recognising her in descriptions or in this recasting. How old would an original Japanese audience member be today if they watched any of the Patlabor adaptations when they were first broadcast and theatrically released in Japan? Botchan, obliquely referenced in this eighth episode of After the Rain too. |
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Panino Manino
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Please, link me to interviews where they talk about this. What were the intentions that they specifically declared? And don't pretend that you didn't got your answers regarding Patlabor and Akutagawa. |
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CrowLia
 Posts: 5527 Location: Mexico |
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I think you missed the point of how (sadly) ironic it is that your rebbuttal would be a stock phrase used by actual rapists and child predators (and sometimes the system that backs them up) to excuse their crimes "she came on to me" "what did she expect, wearing that" "it was her fault". A narrative that, some could argue, this show is trying to support |
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Terrible90sDub
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Based on passed comments, I'm assuming you mean "men old enough to have watched Patlabor when it was airing" rather than a line of thought closer to "Japanese teenagers who had to read Botchan in school." If so, I imagine it's more the mangaka's personal interests making it a reference. Unlike Botchan, knowing Patlabor isn't really relevant to understanding anything in After the Rain beyond what Kondo's appearance is based off of. Searching in Japanese, I found two interviews with the mangaka and in one of them she mentions that she was influenced by works in the 90s the most, which Patlabor just barely misses in terms of era. (Incidentally, this whole anime feels a lot like a 90s shoujo manga to me despite the official genre.) While I had to google translate most of it, from what I can gather from it, she states that Kondo is older because she wanted to appeal to a wider audience and many men - including younger men - tend to avoid animanga with bishonen plainly displayed. You can assume the worst from this, but... she isn't wrong there, just look at the comments every time something seen as being aimed at a female audience wins a poll, lol. Granted, there are other ways to un-bish a character, but I think it only means she didn't want to immediately turn off a potential audience rather than anything nefarious. There are spoilers in the interviews, so while I don't think this is a spoiler, it may imply where their relationship will end up so I'll put it behind text just in case: There's also one part where spoiler[she says she didn't intend it as a romance so much as Akira's story of changing life transitions] Of course, you're free to believe she's lying, call death of the author, or - as is entirely likely - that google translate really hates and misleads me. |
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Panino Manino
Posts: 748 |
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Except that she wasn't raped. And she won't be (even if it looks that some here desire to see so).
One of the reasons she gave for Kondo is that for her is easier to draw old man than young boys, and he came after Akira and her dilemmas to broaden the audience. Akira falls in love with him because of her immaturity, this romance is just a bridge to tie the themes for both characters, she wrote Kondo to give another perspective of the same personal dramas. It's like both are the same character in different stages of life. But who cares, it ended just as a manual for rapist. |
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TheKillerAngel
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I am not sure if you are serious or if you are being sarcastic. |
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#Verso.Sciolto
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The original target audience: those who first encountered Patlabor in Japan when Patlabor was first released in Japan. We can put a date on that and calculate how old they are now. One of the other elements to acknowledge is that this group, this original target audience, is a subset of the category "Japanese teenagers who had to read Botchan in school." or were at least introduced to 坊っちゃん no later than school in Japan. Not so much in the sense of first publication of Soseki’s book although that too applies for a slightly smaller subset too. An influential subset. I think knowing Patlabor and its original target audience, its hopes and their aspirations, their 2018 realities, is an important aspect of coming to understand the environment in which “Love is like after the Rain” was created and broadcast. That includes getting to know 南雲 しのぶ in various incarnations throughout the period in question, over the course of their lives. By modelling one character on an earlier character the comparison with the others is all but inevitable. We’ve seen literature classes in this series, 恋は雨上がりのように (Koi wa ameagari no yō ni), but I don’t recall seeing sex education classes. Are my recollections clouded in that regard? What sort of sex ed classes would the target audience have received? |
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hissatsu01
 Posts: 963 Location: NYC |
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I feel sorry for anyone that wanders in here actually expecting to discuss this show, only to find a discussion concerning the personal hobgoblins of its participants.
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Ryutai
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I'm ignoring #Verso.Sciolto posts, since he is speaking about his own story, not about After the rain, and I'm not interested in "what if" scenarios. Anyway, about the interwiew whose you are speaking, I guess it's the same I read, and there are some facts a bit different from what you are saying. - About the fact she decided to draw a middle aged man, apparently it's only because she thought it was easier for her drawing old men than young cool boys. - About her target, despite this work being born like seinen, most people saw it very shoujo-like. Her readers are 50% males and 50% females. So, she turned this into her strenght point, creating a story for everyone, both for men and women. - Her biggest influences are shoujo manga from the 80s/90s, so she is putting tons of elements from those works, to create a nostalgic feeling. - She isn't writing After the rain as a love comic, but like the portrait of a 17 years old girl life, that includes everything: friendship, school, love, club activities, etc. And now, my personal opinions. This work is a small masterpiece. Both Akira and Kondo are learning from each other, because their lives are so similar in this moment, despite the age gap. As I said, both of them are learning: this means also Kondo isn't always right in everything he does. Of course, he isn't a sexual predator, and anyone who thinks something like this isn't following this show, it's obvious. Kondo is emotionally broken as much as Akira. Some people could say it's wrong for him not being more direct in rejecting her, but this is part of his weakness, because he is very human. Being close to Akira, is making him feel better. He can remember emotions and memories that he had forgotten, and this is giving him new energy and courage, like we will see in the next episode, where the parallels between Akira and Kondo situations will be made still more evident. Also Akira is using Kondo as an emotional surrogate, for her own sake, because she lost her most precious thing at the moment (running). Some people should have already noticed the direction of the story, even though it's more obvious in the second part of the manga, that I don't know if will be covered from the anime. Anyway, also at this point we can see like Akira is living her crush on Kondo like escapism. Kase wasn't wrong about this. And Kondo will be able to see this as well. So, why he isn't rejecting Akira more harshly? Because, as I already said, this "friendship" with her, is helping him emotionally very much. And this has nothing to do with him being a "pervert", of course, but with his depression. Thanks to her spoiler[he will find the strenght and inspiration for writing again, and writing is his biggest love, exactly like running is Akira's biggest love] This doesn't mean Kondo is blind. He is aware this escapism is unhealthy for Akira. spoiler[When he discovers she could run again, if only she started the rehab, he is also more sorry that she is wasting her life in that family restaurant.] The manga is close to its ending, and in the latest chapters spoiler[finally he found the courage to do what some people say he should have made since the beginning: he rejected her harshly. He thinks he can't be selfish anymore, and as a mature adult, he must give her the most precious thing ever: the strenght for running again. So, while she would like to spend more time with him in his room, after they visited the Shrine during the New Year's Day, he harshly faces her, saying there's nothing he can offer her. In that room, the only things that he wants close to him, are an old pen and a manuscript. And he asks Akira, if there's really nothing that she wants, that she left behind in her life: and finally, for the first time, Akira admits in tears, that she wants to run. So, while Kondo has been a bit selfish for not rejecting since the beginning Akira more harshly, he was aware to be wrong. But as a reader, I can also see that if he had rejected Akira immediately, without that they could develop this friendship that healed their souls, so useful for learning from each other, probably she would have been only heart broken, and her depression would be only become worse.] She needed someone with his experience close to her, for learning from his mistakes. And he needed someone like her, for reviving his past ambitions.This is the whole point of this beautiful story. Last edited by Ryutai on Sat Mar 03, 2018 5:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ryutai
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I want to add another thing: spoiler[the fact Akira is using her feelings for Kondo as escapism, doesn't mean her feelings aren't sincere. They are genuine, and people shouldn't belittle them just because her target of affection is way older than her. And Kondo's feelings for Akira, progressively and probably become closer to romantic feelings, and this makes him feel uncomfortable. This means he is a sexual predator? No, because he hasn't any fetish for young girls, and these feelings are not based on something this pervert. He continues to believe he isn't the right person to her, and his final choice shows this clearly. Personally, I think if they will be together, when she is a bit older, there wouldn't be anything wrong, because their relationship was developed deeply, on reciprocal knowledge of each other personalities, mistakes, faults, etc. It wasn't based on some creepy fetish for old men/young girls. Also this way, the most probable ending is the separation between them. But they shared one of the best bonds I saw in manga ever, that gave their lost dreams and hopes back to them.]
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Ryutai
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I am a woman, and I emphasize both with Kondo and Akira, but probably more with Kondo, since I'm closer to his age. Of course, not because I want a young girl falling in love with me (I'm not lesbian), but this was never Kondo's dream either. His life is more complex than being limited to romance. Some people are projecting their personal experiences or "what if" scenarios into this story, rather than consider what the story is actually telling. Kondo isn't the portrait of your ex-partners, since he isn't even into a romantic relationship with Akira, and I doubt the author wrote a biography about your ex-boyfriends in her manga. I noticed Kondo shares some characteristics with her, apparently (he graduated from Waseda university, and he doesn't own a tv, for example). Anyway, as I already said, this manga is BOTH for female and male readers. |
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