Forum - View topicWhat's So Gay About Yuri!!! on Ice?
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residentgrigo
Posts: 2544 Location: Germany |
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A subtext can be found everywhere though:
The Wizard of Oz 1939 even managed to become a lighting rod of the actual LGBT community, something Japanese media is seriously struggling with, and it had nothing homosexual about it. Shrug. People see what they want to see in the end but artists loved to pander to as many customers as people, if money can be made that way. That´s all i can say about these middle of the road fake gay anime shows. Madoka (forget the 3rd film), Naruto (the manga) and TTGL are overall good though. I watch this week´s Supergirl S02 by CW (it got notably better). It´s a PG rated young adult show for primarily women. A new supporting cop character is a lesbian and she kissed another woman on camera with zero narrative focus on it. The media didn´t pick up on it either. That´s how you win the "representation" race in my eyes. In a matter of fact way with noone bothering to notice, on a goofy kids show. Slow clap! |
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EmperorBrandon
Encyclopedia Editor
Posts: 2214 Location: Springfield, MO |
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Really happy to see a mention of Kanamemo, among one of the shows I was more fond of in the early days of official Crunchyroll simulcasting. At some point (after I had seen Bodacious Space Pirates), I got to thinking about how the mutual couple in that stood out among lesbian relationships in non-yuri-themed series. I found things like that refreshing compared to the "predator lesbian" thing that seemed to abound. I need to get to watching Kanamemo again, since it's been so long.
They never really use "girlfriend" precisely, though, even though Crunchyroll's subs translate it as such (I think it's always been the gender-neutral term "koibito" (lover) when they've said it). I'm not really going to get into judging the intentions of these elements or what category they belong in, but I'm kind of fascinated by just how widespread the LGBT elements are this season. Besides the titles mentioned in the article and Keijo, there's also Kiss Him, Not Me. Wixoss has always had the yuri elements (even moreso with the manga spinoffs and movie), but now it also has some male homosexuality in Lostorage Incited Wixoss. I could probably get to naming a number of other things with the subtext. And also with Magical Girl Raising Project and Lostorage Wixoss, there's the element spoiler[of someone in a body of a different sex than they were originally]. Last edited by EmperorBrandon on Wed Nov 02, 2016 6:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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AholePony
Posts: 330 Location: Arizona |
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This is the best reply in this whole thread. |
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Fenrin
Posts: 703 Location: SoCal |
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I'm just going to leave this post on the term queerbaiting
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meruru
Posts: 475 |
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Wow, that is rather presumptuous of you. Not only have I been in a relationship, I've been married for over ten years. And if a dude decided to start off a relationship with me by touching me like Victor touches Yuri, with no previous understanding of a relationship, we only had agreed to a student/mentor relationship, yes, I'd be creeped out. And there's a WHOLE LOT of women that agree. There is a huge difference between doing that kind of thing when you have some minimum of understanding i.e. flirting beforehand, asking out on a date, etc., versus doing it out of the blue like Victor does plus having a uncomfortable rather than obviously receptive reaction from Yuri, and then continuing to do it, and not even asking if he's okay with it. I'll grant you fiction doesn't have to adhere to reality, but the fact that I feel like it doesn't is what makes it feel like possibly queer baiting, fetishizing, whatever you want to call it, to me, which is what the entire article was about. |
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AholePony
Posts: 330 Location: Arizona |
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Wow. 2nd best post in this thread. Read this with an open mind. |
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meganinja
Posts: 15 |
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I Agree with you, people are taking some types of Friendship too serious Sometimes, things that is labed as "Bait" is just friendship things... this also happens a lot in children franchises like "Pretty Cure" where the girls have some moments of Friendship that can easly labed as Yuri if you dont notice the context of thing |
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Chrysostomus
Posts: 335 |
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whiskeyii
Posts: 2266 |
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Nah, you're just seeing a divide between those that subscribe to Authorial Intent and those that favor Death of the Author. In any case, I'd much prefer having a Western-based discussion on QUILTBAG representation in anime as opposed to none at all simply because I lack the "correct" worldview to interpret it from. EDIT: Not to mention that the director has had a few instances where her treatment of certain characters lines up more with the Western definition of "progressive", so I wouldn't say it's a shot in the dark to hope that Yuri follows in that same vein. |
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EricJ2
Posts: 4016 |
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Supergirl isn't a "goofy kids show", it's a fangirl-cult show on a fangirl-cult network, with broadcast networks now realizing that only female and gay audiences ever tune in to watch "live" broadcast TV anymore, especially if it gives those niche fans the personal vindication to feel "they're on it". (The guys are just streaming their shows on Netflix, so why bother making shows for them without the sponsors?) US TV's current forced/obligatory demographic kissing-up to gay audiences for Emmy's and cult-viewership's sake is sort of the opposite of Japan's TV, that wants to kiss up to their marketable core fangirls without doing it...too much for comfort. |
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Keichitsu0305
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My theory is that director Sayo actually read some online comments about how vaguely obvious their relationship is and was all, "Well, duh! Of course love isn't as clear cut as telling the whole world I love this person but just so the haters can shut up for 5 seconds ,whelp! Here you go." At least, so far no one in this forum is denying that Yuuri is in love with Victor (on the same level as his family/friends) so, it seems Sayo Yamamoto was successful!
Yup, yup we are on the same page!! Personally, Victor and Yuuri's relationship reminds me of the 1st season of Snow White with the Red Hair where Shirayuki and Zen both had their own separate goals in life but by being together they revealed something special about themselves. The same is happening here only we have only seen Yuuri's perspective since this is his story after all. Yes, I'm a fujoshi who likes BL/GL guilty pleasures like Sakura Trick and Junjo Romantic AND I love No. 6 and Yuri Kuma Arashi (thanks EmperorBrandon for mentioning Bodacious Space Pirates) for positive representation. But, I feel that YOI really is special by containing naturally occurring character development in a short time frama while also giving us a couple with wonderful chemistry; Sayo is literally expressing a form of love that's more fluid than we, the audience, can comprehend. spoiler[That doesn't stop me from reading a ton of Victuuri smut to tie me over every week. I am fujoshi trash for life!! ;D] |
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Angel'sArcanum
Posts: 303 Location: Toronto, Ontario |
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Not entirely sure about Rakugo Shinju and Gankutsuou having gay leads exactly. The former is mostly about 2 guys who are romantically involved with a few women and how love and art are constantly clashing in their respective lifestyles and how much they can be satisfied with the results. Yakumo does have a deep admiration for Sukeroku which doesn't necessarily work the same way around, but I'm not sure I would call it infatuation, it's more about envy and recognizing Sukeroku's fantastic natural talent for storytelling. Sukeroku and Yakumo are very close and confide in each other a lot, but they come off more as sibling rivals if anything since they were also kind of raised that way early on as well. At the very least, I don't think Sukeroku feels as deeply for Yakumo as Yakumo does him. Yeah, Yakumo isn't as romantic when shown with his female courtships where Sukeroku is a rather overtly sensual person, but I'm not sure it's that he's uncertain about his sexuality and feelings for Sukeroku, but more that he just cares more for art than love, but it also grows more complicated as part of what gives Yakumo joy and makes his artistry seem meaningful is when Sukeroku is his rival and ideal to keep his drive for improvement going. Not that I'm trying to simply invalidate any homosexual relationships and the sort of vibes people are seeing coming from Rakugo Shinju, but I just don't think it's the case.
Then there's Gankutsuou which seemed a bit strange about how Albert's sexuality is dealt with (granted, idk how close it is to the original Count of Monte Cristo, haven't read it yet sadly); he worships The Count almost like a god, always chasing after him, though he had an arranged marriage with Eugenie and by the final episode of the series it seemed like they may have been searching for each other like lost lovers. I will say my problem with Gankutsuou is the messy final 2 episodes, especially the penultimate one. Where Albert spoiler[ tells The Count he loves him, but it seemed like it was a last resort gesture of heightened emotion to unseal his heart and kill him off (all that was pretty nuts as it were), almost like a more twisted version of Kaworu's mixed signals with Shinji, though unlike that it didn't come off quite as a tragic failed love, the execution just seemed peculiar to me.] Again, it seems further leaning on Albert and Eugenie with the whimsy and romantic longing in that last episode after the mercurial feelings floating about between the two throughout the series. Maybe Albert was bi, but they weren't very explicit about it, and perhaps I'm exaggerating, but it seems like a cruel gesture to tease Albert and The Count so much and then just have it crash and burn in such a crazy way and then end off with the cheery hetero pairing. Been some time since I've seen the series and maybe I'm just wildly misreading it. |
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Katgineer
Posts: 2 |
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I've been wondering something for awhile about the whole "I'm not gay, but for you..." thing. In the real world, this can totally happen. People can fall in love with a specific person, without being in love with anyone else of that gender and in fact having a history of generally preferring the opposite gender. But, as the article addresses, most anime show these relationships in a completely non-nuanced way. Anyone know an example of an anime that does this well? Where a character loves someone, not some gender. I feel like YOI might be close to this depending on how the series continues.
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whiskeyii
Posts: 2266 |
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Not sure if all of them qualify--most are used as to handwave one guy with a history of women suddenly falling for a dude--but TV Tropes' If It's You, It's Okay page has examples of anime and manga that uses that trope. The anime and manga examples are just that though; examples of media that use that trope. It's not indicative of the quality of the work. Oh, and beware of spoilers (the blanked out text). |
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kazenoyume
Posts: 425 |
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AngelsArcanum: You're on the wrong page regarding Gankutsuou. Albert's best friend Franz is gay and canonically in love with him.
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