Forum - View topicNEWS: Geneon USA to Cancel DVD Sales, Distribution by Friday
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Koast
Posts: 36 |
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Well, comments aside from the argument about copyrights.. I sorta just came and seen this today and I was like
 But anyway.. I got a response from Geneon about my question to them if they are going to continue publishing anime series which aren't finished yet, here's what they said:
Well there you have it, the reason why they were so vague was due to the fact that they didn't know what they were going to do.. I sure hope no one else posted similar news to this otherwise I'm gonna feel a tad bit foolish repeating it, oh well o_o I'm hoping though that they will be able to somehow keep going. So watch their website I guess, although it doesn't say for sure they're not canceling anything either, they said "may" be canceled, not "will" so there you are. o_o There is still hope! |
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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Weazul, I understand your priorities. You are one of those "copyright is absolute" guys. I'm not going to be able to argue you out of that mentality. I'm not saying people don't have alternatives I'm saying that what they are doing is easier for them and isn't necessarily negative.
Think of it this way Weazul. You bought box sets to maximize your use of money right? So you waited for the series to be 40$ for 26 episodes instead of 120$. Well lets say you have a pirate guy who does download a series for free, but he goes out and buys those 26 episodes when they come out for 120$. You actually contributed less to the industry financially, and that's undeniable. I'm not saying what you are doing is wrong (definitely, definitely not, please don't take it that way). I'm simply saying regardless of how people work things out you can maximize your contributions in different ways and IN MY OPINION it's ok and doesn't hurt anyone to do so. I understand that your opinion is different, and the opinions of many people here are different. Sadly, it seems that it is impossible to have the discussion without someone assuming all of us who download are evil. Anyway, I'm sure the question at this point would be.. "Why?" Why do we support a series new instead of an older one for 40$. Well, because in my mind I'm going to spend the most $ on the series I like the best. Also, there is that I believe there is a higher chance the companies pay more attention to the profitability of their current titles than ones from years ago. But all in all, I place my principles on supporting what you value and want to continue. I could care less about copyright itself, but the principle of paying people for working is legitimate (what copyright was designed to do). I don't believe it's an inalienable right but I do believe if you want things to continue you need to support them. Also, as for going to libraries, etc one should realize that not all libraries are equal. Also, downloading is generally more convenient, and you have a newer title selection than you'd probably get looking around for hours through libraries, etc. It's been years since I've even been to a library. I probably should go at some time or another, but I just don't like to use my time that way. The computer stuff is what I'm doing already anyway (or I wouldn't be in this forum  ), so it's just a lot more natural way to do things for me personally. But I can only speak for myself on that issue.
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Ceredonia
 Posts: 36 Location: Fort Collins, CO |
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So what does this mean for a store that orders anime through wholesale for rental? Should I order all the Geneon titles by Friday, including the older ones as well as preorders with street dates before 11/6?
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Weazul-chan
 Posts: 625 Location: Michigan |
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I'm not a "fansubs are always wrong" maniac, I just despise the "I can't afford it so I'll download illegally" argument. a little patience for waiting for boxsets or scrounging the internet and used video stores (and rental stores used DVDs for sale) never hurt anyone.
I basically judge how I want to buy by what priority a series is. as a rabid Black Cat fan (even if I prefer the manga over the anime) I bargain hunted getting the DVDs for that new as they're released, I would have done that with Wolf's Rain had I not got laid off before volume 3 came out, I plan to do the same when Darker Than BLACK gets released. for mid level priority series I'm willing to wait for the boxset unless my bargain hunting skills dig up very good deals. low level priority series I buy primarily secondhand and thru major sales. that way I'm fully supporting my most favorite series and showing support for most of my lesser favorites as well. that's a legal, logical, and more affordable way to do things. and the point of InterLibrary Loans is that if your public library doesn't have what you want they can get that something from another library for you. as an added bonus when you get DVDs via ILLs most libraries waive any rental fee they have. granted, not all ILL systems are vast, some libraries can get ILLs from libraries from all areas of the country, others only from the general region, and others only from other libraries inside the same state. still, one can be surprised how much anime they can get that way. I'd've made use of the vast anime selection my local library can access (thru in state only ILLs) but I already have most of the titles (but then, I'm a hoarder since I'm a compulsive rewatcher) so it's a moot point. I've used it for manga, tho. |
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Porcupine
 Posts: 1033 |
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It's not like Geneon USA is bleeding out of their @$$ right now. I'm guessing that they are either losing only a little bit of money overall in the end, or possibly making a little bit of money (but not enough for Densetsu to want to continue the business). If you want to claim that Geneon USA is bleeding so bad that they absolutely had to send all systems into emergency shutdown, show some proof.
This is the situation with the anime industry because the "police" don't exist or aren't doing anything. So people steal at will. And thieves couldn't care less if you "moral" people preach to them that what they are doing is "wrong". Hahaha, they will just laugh at you. Come and stop us if you can, they will say. And what are you gonna do, whine like a baby and keep telling them that what they are doing is "wrong"? Who cares what is "right" or "wrong". Who cares about "morals". To be honest, these words hold no meaning for me. I do, however, care about the anime industry (because I care about anime), and within that context I acknowledge that certain actions are harmful to the industry. Note that I personally buy all my anime. But, I don't think that thieves are bad. Thieves are just smart people who take advantage of the way things are. In the case of a "free" Mercedes, I'd become a thief too because the reward for thievery would be too great. Plus I couldn't care less about the guy I am stealing the Mercedes from. I care about myself and my friends and my anime and the nice people who make anime for me. I do not care about some random guy I don't know who owns a Mercedes. |
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Desslar
Posts: 70 Location: Washington, DC |
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If the pirate is going to go out and pay full price for the series he downloaded then that's great. He's not a problem. It's the people who download and don't purchase that we're talking about.
Well, making license plates is a living.
Maybe you would have a good chuckle if your car was stolen, but most of us would be pretty pissed. |
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Danpixare
Posts: 3 |
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*sigh* YOu see, I had a feeling something like this would happen. Rule #1: NEVER EVER get in a deal with A.D.V...
Although with my experience as of late Bandai has been upping prices (mostly to "attack the fansubbing threat") and become the company to shun, A.D.V. is quite the monopoly. Seems to of always been that way. So it's no surprise that perhaps, with the falling out of a proposed synergism, that there would be great repercussion on the end of dear Geneon. Usually, I go to Geneon, Viz, and Funimation. They have titles I like, but when something like this happens, of fault amounting what I would assume is a 'our way or else' contracting issue, I do NOT approve. Call it strange, or even confusing, but I stand by what I've said: There is more to this that what's in front of us. Read between the lines, and you might see the same thing as I have. TIll next, faithful Otaku~ Dred Lily  V
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Porcupine
Posts: 1033 |
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I also said that I only care about myself, my friends, my anime, and the nice people who make anime for me. By this logic, I would care if my car were stolen. If the police did not catch the thief, then I would try myself. And if I caught him I would send him into the next dimension to make him pay for his crime. However, it seems that you would prefer to find him and tell him "Naughty, naughty thief. Didn't your parents teach you morals? Now give back my car because it is the right thing to do." If you did that, the thief would laugh and send YOU into the next dimension instead. Yet, I would not care nor would I feel bad if I stole someone else's car and got away with it. Because I care about myself, not people I don't know who don't help me in any way. Similarly, I would not care if someone I did not know stole a Mercedes from another person I did not know. I guess that someone I don't know downloading free anime is a slightly different situation. Because that thief is stealing from my friends who make anime. So I should care a little bit. However, the thing in this case is that the people who make anime have within their own power the ability to reduce the thievery somewhat. But they aren't using their power. So it's their own fault for being lazy and stupid. Therefore I don't blame the thief for what he does. |
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Weazul-chan
Posts: 625 Location: Michigan |
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you do understand that some companies ARE taking steps to limit the amount of illegal downloads, right? Japanese companies are threatening to sue YouTube, Viz, owned by a Japanese parent company, offers subbed eps of Death Note before it's even been released on DVD for $1.99 an ep, and such.
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Porcupine
Posts: 1033 |
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Whatever small steps they have taken so far has not been nearly enough. I don't even know how to download a fansub since I've never done it before, but if I really wanted to I could find easily find a lot of them at any moment and download via Bit Torrent or whatever. But I don't know where to go to download american movies, although I'm sure there are places for those in the know.
When it becomes equally hard to find and download Japanese anime as it is to find and download popular american movies, then I'll admit that the anime companies (both Japanese and American) are doing a reasonable job. Until then, it's pretty obvious to me that in truth they are doing close to nothing. |
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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It's equally easy to find popular american movies once the dvd is released. If you are talking about while it's in the theater, you'd be right. And as far as american television goes (which is more comparable to anime than major feature films are), it is at least as popular online as anime if not more so.
So I don't think you are on base with these comments. Not only that, you have to realize the effort extended in comparison to the returns on the investment. What would it require for these companies to truly prevent these activities to the extent that would be useful? It would cost $ for them to do this, and would these $ actually end up making more people buy anime? Probably not. People like me who don't go to libraries, etc. use this method to find new things and they would honestly just give me a reason to be annoyed at them (like i am at the RIAA/MPAA), and make me less likely to be a customer. So they shouldn't do this. They should leave the situation alone, but I don't know that they will. And if they crash it won't be because of this situation, it'd be because there are frankly just not as many interested purchasers as any of us would like. Sending out C&D letters isn't going to magically generate more fans for them. |
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tygerchickchibi
 Posts: 1468 |
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I definitely think it's a smart idea for them to preview a few episodes of an anime on the site, but it still comes with much of a headache. Though the show is only $1.99 an episode (Which isn't bad at all, compared to downloading a ringtone via cell phone, or a music file), People just don't want to invest, or have an online account to pay for files. Some sites also allow for it to be watched for free, but yeah, this was a random off topic post... >.>; |
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Porcupine
Posts: 1033 |
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Oh, maybe you are right. Thanks for opening my eyes on this one. I tried to look for Star Wars and Spider Man torrents just now and I found lots, lol.
Okay, I was wrong. I apologize, I didn't know what I was talking about. -_-; I guess piracy is rampant even with domestic movies. So then, is there just no solution to the piracy issue? It may be as you said, that the only solution is to mostly ignore piracy and try to survive in spite of it. The american movie industry appears to survive in such a manner, so the anime industry should be able to as well if it is popular enough. That makes sense I guess. |
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xstylus
 Posts: 264 |
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Why? What's in it for them? Let's say I'm a widget maker. I tell all the widget fans out there that I'm going to make 10 widgets. Let's also say that by the time I finished making the 6th widget, I discover that I'm now in the red, and that if I make those remaining 4 widgets I will loose even more money. Sales of my widgets just isn't covering what it's costing to make them. The few fans who are buying my widgets (instead of settling for unauthorized copies of them) are cheering me on, begging me to finish the other four, but alas, I'm not made of money. I've got mouths to feed and a mortgage to pay, once I get done paying for the materials I still owe from the 6 widgets I made. I decide to cut my losses and find a different job. So I ask again: Aside from a warm, fuzzy feeling, what's in it for Geneon to waste one more penny finishing the production of those shows? Sorry to sound so cold, but the anime world is getting its first bitter taste of the dark side of business. Years ago in my youth I, too, used to think that the world of anime making was "above" such evil and that anime existed for a purer purpose than to make a buck, but alas, as so many of you have now discovered, it is not.
But unless you own shares of Dentsu, your opinion does not count. From a stockholder's perspective, what Geneon is doing is very responsible. In fact, some may even argue they were irresponsible for not having done it sooner. |
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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Porcupine, I personally think that is the solution. But, others disagree and think the whole industry has a right to crack down. Congress may help them see to doing that with more laws, etc, etc. but they will only be so effective. It's like I've been saying the whole time. The only way to absolutely stop it in it's place is for us to create a police state and monitor what people are doing so that they can't upload anything or copy anything even to a close friend without getting caught.
And we don't want that. We can't want that. Freedom is more important than entertainment. I absolutely believe in supporting what I value and like you I buy anime because of that. But I'll never be for a system which is going to push us towards more and more laws and less and less freedoms. This is why I'm not a fan of copyright laws and licenses, etc. I believe in the long run we'll have to either get rid of it or it'll exist in a much more limited form. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. People will ultimately spend their money on things in this order 1) The things that they NEED in order to live (shelter, food,etc) 2) The things that they HAVE to buy (physical things where stealing deprives others and is much easier to prevent) 3) The things that they LIKE or WANT. Anime is going to be on tier 3 for those who like it regardless of whether copyright exists or not. The only thing I can see less copyright laws doing is possibly making some people spend more money on hardware, but then it might be fair of finding some ways to supplement the income of musicians/artists/etc. with these sales (similar to how CD-R purchases actually have a portion of the $ that goes to the RIAA) to counterbalance that. One thing that absolutely will not help is putting more laws in place that increase the number of C&D letters and the number of lawsuits. Those things only help you if you are a lawyer! The don't help authors/artists/downloaders/fans/etc even if you think they do. I know many peoples morality is such that they believe copyright is inalienable and that it's something we should respect to the extent that we call it theft when it's broken. I'm not saying their morality is "wrong" but I do think it's unrealistic in the modern age. We can't continue that system for much longer. We don't have that privilege. BTW to make it clear this is no doomsayer's post. I believe the system is doomed, but I think a new aged of artists and fandom which is even bigger and broader than ever will come out of this. The lack of respect for copyright has created such things as fanfics, anime music videos, etc. Some of them aren't as great as we'd like but some of them are awesome (IMO), and I think the possibilities for more involving media in the future are truly cool, which is why I'm a bit quicker in wanting to dismiss this age. Last edited by Xanas on Thu Sep 27, 2007 10:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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