Forum - View topicTen Years of Death Note: Is Light The Bad Guy?
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relyat08
 Posts: 4125 Location: Northern Virginia |
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Are you advocating killing every single law enforcement person in the world? Because that's what it sounds like. Anyone with a gun and weapon training is now a threat to Kira right? He's doing it for the betterment of society, though, so it's okay. 
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purplepolecat
 Posts: 130 |
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Trump would have been Kira's biggest supporter. The first thing that strikes me about Light's character is that he is the textbook model of a sociopath:
He can't empathise with people emotionally He is incapable of true affection, but can fake it if it furthers his goals (Misa) He's charming and good at manipulating people He's a narcissist (god complex) When he watched spoiler[his own father die right in front of him], his biggest concern was whether he was appearing to display the correct emotions. SOCIOPATH. The whole premise of reducing crime by killing suspected criminals doesn't seem realistic to me. All civilised societies eventually abandon disproportionally harsh punishments and embrace jurisprudence, because the alternative is a society that isn't worth living in. In the dark ages we had swift, harsh justice, and there was still plenty of crime. If we wanted to return to this, there's no need for a magic book; since Light is too lazy to do his own research (like diligent Dexter), all his prey have already had contact with law enforcement. So just eliminate trials for serious crimes, and make every sentence a capital one. Anyone who thinks this is a utopia, I'm sorry, but you have mental problems. The whole vigilante fantasy only works in an environment where crime is rampant and the justice system is powerless, like Gotham City. In modern Japan crime is very low, and the conviction rate very high. There's no need for a vigilante. Light's a smart guy, he would have done far more for justice as a detective or a lawyer. |
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鳳凰の王
 Posts: 28 |
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So if we have a Hikari-kun featured in Death Note 2016, who obtained a Death Note after reading through both the manga and anime, having feverish discussions about the ethics, and became a successful lawyer. He goes about his day meeting criminals, and only kill those against whom he has decent evidence. FBI crowed around him, but he doesn't care about them. Now would this Hikari-kun be considered a hero?
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jroa
Posts: 542 |
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Quite an interesting read, despite already knowing what would be Jacob's answer to the question in the title. To be honest, discussions about Death Note always seem to become more complex than what actually happened in the show itself. In particular, I never really thought Light was much of a "good guy" to begin with, even if it was possible to sympathize with his initial mission statement on paper, and certainly didn't think so as the story progressed either.
That said, Jacob seems to ultimately dismiss the intentions of the original author. Not exactly irresponsibly, because he did bring them up after all, but I really don't think this opinion piece successfully proved (or implied) that the creator was objectively wrong about his own work. While I don't disagree with Jacob's underlying premise about Light himself, I believe that it is entirely possible to use the same exact set of evidence from the anime/manga itself in order to reach multiple interpretations of similar or equal intellectual worth. However, I think those views that are supported by statements from the creator(s) have the potential to be qualitative superior to those without such backing. Which is why I cannot share Jacob's mindset of presenting "Word of God" as overrated, because it certainly can (and, I would often argue, should) influence how the "Action of God" is analyzed. All of this doesn't prohibit authors from contradicting themselves, nor does it leave the audience without room for debate, but it does make it a lot harder to portray any particular argument as conclusive.
I'd say the Yotsuba arc, or rather the fact that nothing really changed within Light after his own experiences there, was quite disappointing in this respect. It simultaneously confirmed his status as a villain as well as my growing dislike for him as a character. If there was any good left in him, it was not enough to compensate for the rest of his being.
Actually, I believe something along these lines has been brought up more than a few times in online comparisons. Just using different terminology. The way I would put it, Lelouch had more humanity, fallibility and emotional range than Light. Which can be explained by his own personal suffering, of course, but also by his reactions and attitudes to seeing others suffer or in peril. Evidently, the man didn't always make the "right" choice and many of his actions were sinful, but Lelouch did have the ability to care about other people. Not only himself. Which is part of why I've always found Light to be a far less interesting individual in the long run, even if some audiences may consider his plans to be more intelligent, plausible or well-written (at least to a certain extent). And no, I don't think later revelations in Code Geass changed this particular aspect at all. As a matter of fact, I believe the show (very briefly) makes the point that such experiences did cause real pain, regardless of any lies involved. But I digress.
I've never considered myself much of a fan of those attitudes either, despite enjoying the show and the discussions around it. That said, I do tend to strictly separate an anime from its fandom, for better or for worse. Last edited by jroa on Fri Mar 18, 2016 2:12 pm; edited 5 times in total |
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MajinAkuma
 Posts: 1199 |
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Light is my favorite Death Note character. But without him being the killer, he would probably be a boring character who is on L's level. The series only works with him being the protagonist since we get the supernatural stuff explained from his perspective. If L was the protagonist, he would be amusing as hell, but the Death Note stuff would be less believable. If the setting was different and both, Light and L had to team up like in the Yotsuba Group arc, L would be the protagonist, since Light is too bland, but he is the perfect antipole to L because L lacks certain morals.
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Animorphimagi
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In the end it depends on what you are saying is good and evil.
At its core the series was limited. For such an arrogant person who deemed people evil or good, he sure agreed with Japanese laws perfectly... the series never addressed his personal beliefs on things like religion or abortion. If murder was deemed legal anywhere in the world, then it comes to your personal beliefs when you say a murderer is "evil" |
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Evernessince
Posts: 22 |
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Here's my question, why did L reveal himself after Kira killed the fake L? If he would have let Kira believe that he had finished L off chances are Kira would have made bold moves that would have easily given away his location.
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Zhou-BR
Posts: 1445 |
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As monstrous as Light is, what I love about him as a protagonist is not just his cleverness and commitment to his self-serving cause, but also how he makes a point of doing it right under law enforcement's noses to prove how much smarter he is than them. I just find that kind of petty hubris terrifically entertaining to watch.
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Zin5ki
 Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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Thank you for this article, Jacob!
If I may dwell on the point you make here, how would you have judged the moral character of Light if Matsuda, or a character assuming a similarly symbolic role, had not existed in this work? For the sake of argument, let us suppose that Matsuda had been absent from the story, and that Light had met his demise by a separate means. While this omission would certainly have changed many finer points of the plot, would it have altered the manner in which Light is presented to the viewer as a moral agent, or more specifically, as a wholly immoral one? That is to say, had he not been directly condemned by an arguably normative character, might Light's depravity have been more equivocal, contra your main thesis? If this is the case, it may suggest that Light's misdoings were not sufficient to establish his status as an utter villain, but that the explicit judgement of a more sympathetic character was a necessary component. Admittedly this would be a controversial point, for surely it is intuitive to think that Light's deeds alone render him utterly odious. If this intuition is accurate though, then what has Matsuda's intervention proven about Light's villainy that was not already established by his murders and delusions? As always, I would be greatly interested to read your views on this. |
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pluvia33
 Posts: 194 Location: Dayton, OH, USA |
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I initially read the Death Note manga as a recommendation from a friend and I enjoyed it for the story quite a bit. I then watched the anime and was mostly just bored and annoyed. I came to the realization that the series had absolutely no re-read/re-watch value to me, mainly because I didn't like any of the characters other than Matsuda. Most of the other characters I found rather boring and I completely hated Light. Misa was kind of cute and enjoyable to watch, but her blind/stupid loyalty to Light ruined her for me. Once I knew what was going to happen with the story, the series had nothing left to entertain me with.
So yes, I agree completely with the article. Light is a horrible person, a total egomaniac with not real redeemable qualities. It has always baffled my mind how he actually had fans. Sure, smart psychopathic egomaniacs can be fun to watch (I get a kick out of watching Moriarty from Sherlock and Master/Missy from Doctor Who), but even in that regard I never found Light to be enjoyable as a character. He's just meh. Personally, although I am not a particularly huge fan of Code Geass either, I found Lelouch to be a much more likeable version of this archetype. He at least really cared about some people, felt remorse on occasion, and had the balls to spoiler[sacrifice himself in the end for the greater good of society.] |
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Puniyo
 Posts: 271 |
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There's no denying that the crime rate really would go down if Kira existed, but murder is horrible and wrong - but there's a point in the movie where L suggests using Death Row prisoners as bait, and Light's father disagrees completely, saying something along the lines of "You talk as if their lives mean nothing". They don't, atleast in the eyes of the law - they're being executed, after all. Not very different from what Kira does.
Then again, There's no doubt Kira probably killed someone who stole food due to hunger or killed someone by accident. Anime Light might actually be the most 'evil' of them all. He never really had bold good intentions - he just needed something to do. Then again, he really believed he was doing a good thing until the end, despite acknowledging his actions were evil. Meanwhile, Drama Light absolutely believed he was doing the right thing to the very end, while movie Light's motivation was much better explained - though he really did just snap, and you can see the moment that he does ("Who knows?" after killing Shiori). Light as a person aside though, I do love Light as a character. He's greatly interesting to watch. |
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8474 Location: Penguinopolis |
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This is a completely absurd debate. Holding the world hostage until it behaves itself is absolutely a villain's purview. A world peace predicated on us all being too scared to do something evil is itself evil and that peace is meaningless. Light, while initially well-meaning, is unquestionably the "bad guy", even if he is a villain protagonist.
But as Ohba maintains, Death Note isn't really about the morality of the subject at hand, the use of the supernatural notebook. Death Note is about the back-and-forth game of wits between Light and law enforcement. That's what makes it interesting. |
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pikabot
Posts: 168 |
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This debate would be a lot more interesting if there was even a shred of moral ambiguity to the series itself. As Jacob pointed out, he doesn't start with good intentions and then slide downhill into corruption; by the end of the very first episode he's laughing maniacally and proclaiming himself to the the god of the new world. Ohba's statement that the series doesn't stake out a moral position has about as much credibility as Ubisoft claiming that The Division is 'apolitical'.
This isn't a Walter White situation, where a character is indeed acting out of selfishness and amorality from just about minute one, but the series obfuscates it so that it remains ambiguous until the clarity of hindsight hits it. Death Note makes NO attempt to pretend, with any seriousness, that Light is anything but a mass-murdering nutcase. If someone's arguing differently, either they weren't paying very much attention, or it says something ugly about them. Last edited by pikabot on Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:38 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Spoofer
 Posts: 356 Location: NY |
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^ Light is no different from anime villain #3,792 that thinks he alone knows what's best for the future of humanity in direct contrast to the wishes of all (or most) others, and will go to any means and do all number of heinous things in order to attempt to achieve it. Light deemed that he, as a narcissistic 18 year-old kid not even out of high school, knew better than all of society as far as being judge, jury, and executioner on an increasingly intolerant moral scale from episode 1. By episode 2, he was straight up murdering any and everyone that vowed to investigate and try to prevent a serial murderer from claiming more victims, while losing his shit and screaming "how dare they stand in the way of me becoming the God of my New World!?" Is this topic even for real? EDIT: Ninja'd. Last edited by Spoofer on Fri Mar 18, 2016 4:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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The Mad Manga Massacre
Posts: 1168 |
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At this point I can definitively say that i really don't care for Ohba as a writer and his general world views at least the toxic one he expresses in his works I've read. I think Obata is at his best working with other writers than Ohba. Gakkyu Hotei and All You Need is Kill being the best recent examples that come to mind.
Anyways back to the topic, Light makes for a fascinating villain and while Death Note isn't even my favorite of this duo's works (Platinum End is) Light is a rather clever character as was the way he was framed though at this point I find the impact of the series on pop culture far more interesting than the series itself. |
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