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INTEREST: Manga Editor Provides Glimpse of Lolicon Magazine's Standards


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Rensie



Joined: 02 Sep 2011
Posts: 251
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 2:22 am Reply with quote
CoreSignal wrote:
Completely agree. @Rensie, Akihabara, Shibuya, Ginza and any well-known districts in Tokyo aren't necessarily representative of Japan as a whole. It seems like some people have the impression that Japan is an otaku paradise where everyone watches anime and reads manga. Shockingly, not everyone in Japan is into anime and manga. Also, there's plenty of western media that gets censored in Japan as well. You could just as argue that Japan is imposing their Japanese values on the West as well when they censor western media.


And again is not your business what people do there, is a girl want perform JK good for her.
Japanese censor western media? Who cares? Westerners do the same daily basis, with anime, manga and videogames.
What i don't like is that foreigners pressure other countries to do what they think is good or not based on their morals, this is absolutely ridiculous.
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littlegreenwolf



Joined: 10 Aug 2002
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Location: Seattle, WA
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:54 am Reply with quote
I dunno if it's Westerner's pushing their morals. I think it's more like trying to tidy up their image for the Olympics they're about to host. As far as I know all the laws have been voluntary with nothing to do with Foreigners.

But I don't follow Japanese politics too much, so what do I know.
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Actar



Joined: 21 Nov 2010
Posts: 1074
Location: Singapore
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 4:03 am Reply with quote
Kai99 wrote:
Lol at the "free world" comments. Nope, this is simply an example of Japan being a-0K with children being sexualized. If Japan is so for "freedom" than why was the woman arrested for her vagina artwork? It aint hurting anyone.


You're right. She shouldn't have been arrested precisely because "It aint hurting anyone". However, from what I understand, her arrest and the tolerance of lolicon manga aren't entirely inconsistent by Japanese standards.

Quote:
Article 175 of the Japanese penal code forbids the blatant depiction of pubic hair, genitals and sexual intercourse (Schodt 1986, 132). This leads to censorship via pixilation or foreground objects that obscure part of the image (Allison 1999, 149). The justification for which is to distance such recreational sex from the act of national reproduction which relates too closely to home and family (Allison 1999, 172). By applying this form of censorship, pornography, that is no longer considered obscene, can be sold and marketed to a wider audience, resulting in the increase of profits (Allison 1999, 150). Producers and artists have employed a myriad of strategies to conform to such regulations while making censored pornography still attractive to consumers (Allison 1999, 151). Lolicon is said to be the result of one of these strategies. Instead of simply acquiescing to censorship laws, artists feature children who have underdeveloped genitals and lack pubic hair to begin with.


From my own research.
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Rensie



Joined: 02 Sep 2011
Posts: 251
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 4:35 am Reply with quote
littlegreenwolf wrote:
I dunno if it's Westerner's pushing their morals. I think it's more like trying to tidy up their image for the Olympics they're about to host. As far as I know all the laws have been voluntary with nothing to do with Foreigners.

But I don't follow Japanese politics too much, so what do I know.


Well, Dan kanemitsu pointed out several articles where foreigners pressure japan government to ban their own media and art because it offend the western bigotry sensibilities.
I trust Kanemtsu and Akamatsu since they live there and know better that us what's going on, their concern are legit. Olympics are just another huge factor in this trend to sanitize the country.
I'm really worry about free speech in Japan and the increase of censorhip in these last years, something that was very valuable and strong in the japanese culture but now at risk (the last TPP don't help at all and show how cowards and spineless japanese politicians are).
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Cptn_Taylor



Joined: 08 Nov 2013
Posts: 925
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 5:10 am Reply with quote
Paulo27 wrote:
zrnzle500 wrote:
Even pedos have standards I guess. Either 8 or 9 is still way, way, way, way, way too young to be considered in such a way. Either way you would face more severe punishment than doing the same thing with say a 14 year old. Although as long as their pursuit is limited to magazines, I guess it's better than molestation but still really disgusting. Rather, I could not fathom finding such things appealing, though I imagine it's not something they chose. Ultimately, they aren't monsters, just people who need help before they hurt someone.
Most of the appeal is the cuteness, not the age itself.
Real kids usually aren't as cute.
Basically the same for hentai vs real porn.


Sure, delusion among fans is strong. Adult men that buy magazines that depict 8-9 year olds preferably in sexy poses. This kind of thing is not better than molestation, it's as disgusting. And I wish laws would make it illegal/criminal to create such magazines.
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Rensie



Joined: 02 Sep 2011
Posts: 251
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:43 am Reply with quote
Cptn_Taylor wrote:
And I wish laws would make it illegal/criminal to create such magazines.


If you don't like something you have the freedom not to buy or support it, while if i want to read it i have all the rights to do so, and this is valid for all the form of art. Don't be so dense and selfish.
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Cptn_Taylor



Joined: 08 Nov 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 7:28 am Reply with quote
Rensie wrote:
Cptn_Taylor wrote:
And I wish laws would make it illegal/criminal to create such magazines.


If you don't like something you have the freedom not to buy or support it, while if i want to read it i have all the rights to do so, and this is valid for all the form of art. Don't be so dense and selfish.


No you don't have all the rights to do so. If you want absolute freedom go live in a cave as a savage and submit yourself to the laws of nature.
But as as long as you live in a civilised society personal freedom is counterbalanced with the needs of society as a whole. You might like torturing animals that doesn't mean that society has to condone your perversion in the matter or even indulge/facilitate such acts. As so it is with the sexualization of children (real or drawn). I have no problem with hentai manga depicting "adult" looking women/men. I do have a problem with manga or magazines depecting child like characters for the only purpose of making adult men and or women masturbate. It is not an acceptable form of entertainment. And society should in no way condone, or make it acceptable to do such things. It it rubs you the wrong way tough luck.
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Juno016



Joined: 09 Jan 2012
Posts: 2413
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:17 am Reply with quote
Rensie wrote:
Anyway your last stamenet is inaccurate too, in my 2 trips i notice lots of people read manga or magazines everywhere, in the streets, at bars, and expecially on public transport services to kill the time. Maybe we have had a different experience.


He/She's made way more trips than you. I've made way more trips than you. We've both made way more trips to way more places than you. Yes, people read them everywhere. I've seen it myself. But start asking around if people read manga. It's not as rare as in the U.S. at all, but even when I do find people, they tend to stick to general mainstream unless they're the even more rare (and usually less sociable) otaku type. It's just... more likely you'll see someone reading it out of the comfort of their home, as far as my experience takes it. However, while I like and appreciate the fact that it's more accepted in public than in the U.S. (where I live, as least), it's not exactly a social norm either. Just a personal hobby most people keep to themselves. It's not uncommon to see someone reading a light novel on a train or bus, but you'll almost never see it without a bookcover meant to cover the book's title and cover image.

For the JK topic, it's not as simple as "They want to--let them." They're nearing adulthood and I do think they deserve the right to freedom to start choosing their future path. But it's not really a promising... path in life. Often times, they choose to do so on a needy basis. They want or need money, and they're often fit for the role. For some, it becomes habit. For some, it goes beyond that and really affects their futures drastically. But what REALLY matters is how well they're manipulated into it. We're not just talking about consent and independence. We're talking about actual corruption in the industry that does what it can to take advantage of vulnerable people, young or not. I'm not even against the idea of young girls dating older men, even for sex. But I'd rather cultivate a system that respects both parties as much as possible and has safeguards in place. Maybe not a system, but a culture.
And frankly, what they have now has no place being the standard. It's downright awful and is similar to the Western porn industry in how many of its servicewomen are treated. It doesn't always hurt everyone, but there are real people involved whose lives are being discarded way too easily here. Just a few too many.
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ItAintEazy



Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Posts: 103
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:17 am Reply with quote
isn't "JK" supposed to be "EK" as in "enjo kousai" or compensated dating?
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dcmc



Joined: 25 Jun 2011
Posts: 59
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:20 am Reply with quote
Cptn_Taylor wrote:
And I wish laws would make it illegal/criminal to create such magazines.

then would you be agree to a laws that would make it illegal to own a gun/weapon?
like u said personal freedom need to be sacrificed for the society.
Cptn_Taylor wrote:
as long as you live in a civilised society personal freedom is counterbalanced with the needs of society as a whole .

since theres more mass shooting case happen in US than child abuse in japan.
yet even civilised society wouldn't let those laws be passed.sigh
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Tempest
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Joined: 29 Dec 2001
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:28 am Reply with quote
ItAintEazy wrote:
isn't "JK" supposed to be "EK" as in "enjo kousai" or compensated dating?


EK is one of many aspects of JK.
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Rederoin



Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 1427
Location: Europa
PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:29 am Reply with quote
littlegreenwolf wrote:
I dunno if it's Westerner's pushing their morals. I think it's more like trying to tidy up their image for the Olympics they're about to host. As far as I know all the laws have been voluntary with nothing to do with Foreigners.

But I don't follow Japanese politics too much, so what do I know.

That contradicts each other.
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Tempest
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:30 am Reply with quote
littlegreenwolf wrote:
I dunno if it's Westerner's pushing their morals. I think it's more like trying to tidy up their image for the Olympics they're about to host. As far as I know all the laws have been voluntary with nothing to do with Foreigners.


It's a combination of international organizations applying pressure, self-censorship because Japan wants to look good for the olympics, and Japanese politicians who truly support the cause of censoring lollicon.

-t


Last edited by Tempest on Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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Tempest
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:32 am Reply with quote
Rensie wrote:
And again is not your business what people do there, is a girl want perform JK good for her.


If a 14 year old wants to have sex for money, good for her ? The law shouldn't try to protect her from exploitation by adults, and her own lack of maturity and ability to make the right decisions?
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Rederoin



Joined: 29 May 2013
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 8:41 am Reply with quote
Kai99 wrote:
Lol at the "free world" comments. Nope, this is simply an example of Japan being a-0K with children being sexualized. If Japan is so for "freedom" than why was the woman arrested for her vagina artwork? It aint hurting anyone.


Using an example of Japan is not free does not exactly change how banning hentia is not anti-freedom.

To top it off, you're talking about censorship laws that got introduced thanks to the U.S.
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