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NEWS: Sexual Assault Charges Dropped Against Voice Actor Illich Guardiola


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Polycell



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:46 am Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
As Ryu Shoji so amply demonstrates, there is a clear link between people who think it is perfectly fine for middle-aged men to boff teenage girls and mental defectives. As Ryu "Genius" Shoji has spent thousands of pointless words illuminating: as long as something isn't illegal, it's perfectly fine! Oi vey. Can't wait until natural selection kicks in for him.
"You hold a point of view I dislike, therefore you are mentally deficient and/or deluded" is a song and dance mankind's been through so many times it's not funny. Different people think different things, end of story.
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SpacemanHardy



Joined: 03 Jan 2012
Posts: 2509
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:54 am Reply with quote
I think the best lesson we can all learn from this is "Don't run traffic lights."
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23997
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:28 am Reply with quote
Polycell wrote:
Blood- wrote:
As Ryu Shoji so amply demonstrates, there is a clear link between people who think it is perfectly fine for middle-aged men to boff teenage girls and mental defectives. As Ryu "Genius" Shoji has spent thousands of pointless words illuminating: as long as something isn't illegal, it's perfectly fine! Oi vey. Can't wait until natural selection kicks in for him.
"You hold a point of view I dislike, therefore you are mentally deficient and/or deluded" is a song and dance mankind's been through so many times it's not funny. Different people think different things, end of story.


No, it's not end of story. People who believe that all opinions are equally valid and therefore nobody's opinion should be judged are insipid twits. Believing that there is nothing inherently wrong with middle-aged men seducing/marrying 16-year-old girls is a stupid opinion. Full stop. Feel free to disagree with me, but I am perfectly justified in believing you are a creepy idiot, if you do.
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Polycell



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 12:12 pm Reply with quote
I never stated that all opinions are valid(or even that valid opinions aren't allowed to be judged); I was calling your opinion on the mental health of those whose opinions differ from yours invalid. You can call me a creepy idiot all you like for not agreeing with your opinion on those who fail to agree with your opinion; it's no skin off my back.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 1:01 pm Reply with quote
Cool. You are a creepy idiot for believing those who think that there is nothing wrong with a middle-aged man seducing/marrying 16-year-old girls are not mental defectives. I have enjoyed this fruitful exchange.
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ItAintEazy



Joined: 26 Jan 2008
Posts: 103
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 1:17 pm Reply with quote
EnigmaticSky wrote:
I don't give a f*** if she says it's consensual, are you seriously comparing thinking it's messed up for a 40+ year old teacher to have a relationship with a teenage student to gay marriage? Why would you defend a pedophile? Seriously? I feel sorry for that poor girl. She's probably going to be messed up because of all this.


Okay, I take it back. Apparently you are not moving to ban all people under 18 from getting married, so I suppose that's different from opposition to gay marriage.

From my standpoint, opposition to this relationship is just a pointless little exercise since the marriage appears to be perfectly legal. Throwing around words like "pedophile" and "pedophile defender" isn't going to change that. As you've said yourself, there are real victims out there that need our attention.
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Guile



Joined: 18 Jun 2013
Posts: 595
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 2:52 pm Reply with quote
I am unsure why people are saying this man is a pedophile. Pedophelia is defined as being attracted to prepubescent children. 16 years is is in no way pedophelia. It would be ephebophilia, which is legal in many parts of the world, including some US states.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 14084
Location: currently stalking my waifu
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 4:10 pm Reply with quote
Let it never be said that I don't have the patience of a saint.

Ryu Shoji wrote:
I have been reading your posts and all I've been seeing is "lynch mob mentality".
Give me a rational and legal explanation as to how such a distinction is justified.


Because being found guilty of a crime in a court of law is not the same as being guilty of a crime in the first place.

I have already stated this several times already, using several different examples.

Ryu Shoji wrote:
Except if it really was a sham marriage, then how come his mother-in-law was present at the marriage and didn't help the police investigation?


The fact that the mother approved of such a creepy marriage and did not help the police investigation is proof enough that she doesn't have the best judgement when it comes to her daughter.

The daughter might genuinely love Guardiola - although she's young enough that she probably doesn't fully understand what love even is - but Guardiola clearly married her to escape prosecution. Most marriages take months to plan and only happen when both parties are ready. This one however was on the order of "oh crap, the authorities are onto me, let's flee to Vegas baby where the marriage age is a year younger and get hitched straightaway". That's what makes it a dodgy marriage.

Ryu Shoji wrote:
There's also the chance that the two were legitimately in love and had decided to wait until she was the legal age of consent, but during a moment of weakness or passion, they gave into their urges. Then, once they found out, they panicked. Then, due to the circumstances, it was decided to be more lenient and focus on the intent of the law as opposed to sticking to its exact letter.


See above.

Also, adults aren't allowed to have "moments of weakness or passion" with an underage student of theirs.

Ryu Shoji wrote:
Of course, that could also be what didn't happen at all, but neither of us know for a fact one way or another, because we are not privy to the details that the law enforcement and judiciary are, so we have no right to make an informed judgement on the case.


There's enough information that any intelligent person can understand what went on.

Ryu Shoji wrote:
To bring some perspective into it...

...

So given what I have personally experienced, until there is evidence that directly states otherwise, I can't ignore the possibility that a similar thing happened here. That the marriage was out of genuine love, but the timing was due to being caught in this mess.


What your brother and sister-in-law did was not illegal, was not deliberately trying to get around a law and was between two consenting adults. Your analogy focuses on the wrong aspect.

Ryu Shoji wrote:
All because shit happens, doesn't mean shit is justified.


And to point your words back at you, just because Guardiola might have loved her doesn't mean he was justified in going ahead and having sex with her.

On a more salient point, I cannot blame any employer from wanting to stay clear of a man who 1): entered into a relationship with a minor, and 2): could not take even a modicum of responsibility for what he did.

Ryu Shoji wrote:
Because you can't answer it properly, because it will reveal how biased your argument is.


I have already answered it just fine.

Ryu Shoji wrote:
But how would I know that you haven't committed a crime? How will people reading an article about the charges against you know that you haven't committed a crime?


Because you would look at what happened and use your brain to arrive at an answer.

Ryu Shoji wrote:
And will you please drill into your head that as I said earlier, "all because shit happens, doesn't mean shit is justified"?


This man had a sexual relationship with an underage student of his. Of course it is justified to think that he is scum; because he is.

It's alarming that you don't think so.

Ryu Shoji wrote:
Considering my age, if I somehow managed to have a teenage daughter, God help her too xD.


Oh jeez, I'm talking to a fourteen-year-old, aren't I.

Ryu Shoji wrote:
All I personally know about Guardiola at this point is that:
1) He is a man
2) He is 41 years old
3) He worked as a teacher
4) He has voiced characters in English dubs of Japanese animation


You also know that:

1): he had sex with a minor who
2): was his student, whom he
3): married in a hurry in another state because
4): he wanted to avoid prosecution, and that
5): there were anonymous phonecalls from other possible victims that the police were never able to track down

Ryu Shoji wrote:
Based on that alone, there is nothing that would cause me enough concern to prevent a hypothetical teenage daughter from being in his presence, particularly if it's something she herself wants.


Easy to talk tough on the internet, especially when your lack of life experience makes you ignorant to the danger guys like Guardiola pose.

Ryu Shoji wrote:
I never said that the police felt that he was innocent, but rather, I'd put stock in the professional decisions of everyone involved in the case.


Yeah, which was that he was guilty as heck but they couldn't prosecute without either the girl or her mother co-operating with them.

Ryu Shoji wrote:
Except he does, because y'know, laws don't only apply to the courtroom and everything outside of the doors is the equivalent to The Purge (and if it was, I sure hope modern society has a higher budget than that film. Considering the amount of debt nations are in though, it probably doesn't. Darn).


The fuq does this even mean?

Ryu Shoji wrote:
And clearly, the person who is the alleged "victim" of this case, as well as said person's mother, see no reason to press charges.


And as I've clearly stated on multiple occasions, neither the girl or her mother are objective/impartial observers on this. The girl could have been groomed or delusional, and the mother could've been tricked or under the belief that her daughter will be happy with this man.
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Nyoro Nyoromi



Joined: 22 Feb 2014
Posts: 6
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 5:45 pm Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:

5): there were anonymous phonecalls from other possible victims that the police were never able to track down

I don't know why more people aren't talking about this particular point. This makes it fairly clear that he was willing to repeatedly engage underage students. Connections are everything in the acting world, so it's not a stretch at all to think that these girls engaged in a relationship they regretted in order to advance their careers.

I'm sure it wasn't so cut-and-dry as him saying "sleep with me and I'll do you a favor," or the girls would have been willing to go to court, instead of remaining anonymous, but it is clear that he has a history of of abusing his position.

Oh no, I'm sorry, I'm jumping to conclusions here...clearly it could've been a bunch of Sentai dub haters calling in to "stick it to him" or prudish people like we see on this board that can't comprehend his true and innocent love.
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Touma



Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2651
Location: Colorado, USA
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 6:45 pm Reply with quote
Nyoro Nyoromi wrote:
dtm42 wrote:

5): there were anonymous phonecalls from other possible victims that the police were never able to track down

I don't know why more people aren't talking about this particular point. This makes it fairly clear that he was willing to repeatedly engage underage students.

Unfortunately those calls do not make anything clear because they were anonymous.
The police and prosecutor could not use them because they could have been made by anybody, for any reason.
If the calls were from other victims I do not blame them for not wanting to be identified, but anonymous calls do not help the authorities.
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Ryu Shoji



Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 674
Location: Cambridge, United Kingdom
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 8:08 pm Reply with quote
@dtm2 -

You may be patting yourself on the back about apparently having a lot of patience, but mine is running out and I'm getting bored of humouring the lynch mob, so moving all analogies and conjecture to one side, here are my undiluted thoughts on the case of Illich Guardiola:

Maybe I didn't word my previous posts clearly enough, but have you ever seen 12 Angry Men? If so, then I think that I could sum everything up by saying that my stance on this stance is like that of Juror 8.

Unlike other people like yourself who are ready to burn Guardiola at the stake, what's made me take a step back and consider the possibility of alternates or leniency being given, is that despite what's been reported in the media (such as his then-girlfriend/lover admitting to a sexual relationship, the alleged anonymous phone calls and the mother's presence at the wedding), the charges were still dropped by the authorities.

Maybe it turned out that the anonymous calls weren't of any merit to the investigation? Maybe it was a huge oversight and they weren't properly investigated? Maybe the mother sees that the two are genuinely in love? Maybe she has been tricked into supporting them? I don't know. However, what I do know is that I don't know, which is why me even entertaining the thought that I know the absolute truth of the case would be foolish.

What I do know however, is that under the UN Declaration of Human Rights, a person who has not been convicted of a crime in a court of law has the right to be treated in every day life as if they were innocent.
In previous posts, you have displayed what to me, looks like a clear lack of respect for the law when it doesn't involve locking people away and if you want to join a lynch mob against a man who is legally innocent at this point in time, then that's your decision. However, as we are only privy to information that has been released to the public and there are clearly big pieces of the puzzle missing, I have made the decision to respect those of the professionals involved. So in accordance with what is not just international law but basic common sense, as he has not been found guilty in a court of law at this time, then I will not treat him as guilty at this time.

If I was a member of the jury in a case where I felt that a piece of the puzzle was missing, I would not be able to vote towards a guilty verdict and walk out of the courtroom with my conscience intact. To be able to make such a decision is an enormous responsibility and to make it without eliminating any reasonable doubt would be gambling with a person's future and even though I am only speaking on this case as a regular member of the public, to take any other stance than that would be highly hypocritical.

In previous posts, you've practically fawned over how intelligent you think you are. So if you really are as smart as you claim to be, I should only have one more question to ask you: reading that, do you still think my stance to be unjust? If so, then maybe you need to rethink what "intelligence" and "morality" mean.

(And to answer your question, No, I am not 14. However, while I am biologically old enough to have a teenage daughter, I am not legally).
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dragonrider_cody



Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 2541
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:55 pm Reply with quote
enurtsol wrote:
Just as a reminder, OJ Simpson was proven to be innocent. Smile


And plenty of innocent people have been convicted, jailed, put on death row, and even executed and later found innocent of the crime. That's one of the reasons why we need to be careful when joining in with the pitchforks and torches.

Our system of law isn't perfect, but it's a far better system than in many other countries. Do I think he broke the law? Yes, but until they are able to prove it, my opinion doesn't matter. Legally, he is presumed innocent.
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AsherFischell



Joined: 24 Feb 2014
Posts: 327
PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 9:55 pm Reply with quote
Ryu Shoji wrote:



Unlike other people like yourself who are ready to burn Guardiola at the stake, what's made me take a step back and consider the possibility of alternates or leniency being given, is that despite what's been reported in the media (such as his then-girlfriend/lover admitting to a sexual relationship, the alleged anonymous phone calls and the mother's presence at the wedding), the charges were still dropped by the authorities.

What I do know however, is that under the UN Declaration of Human Rights, a person who has not been convicted of a crime in a court of law has the right to be treated in every day life as if they were innocent. In previous posts, you have displayed what to me, looks like a clear lack of respect for the law when it doesn't involve locking people away and if you want to join a lynch mob against a man who is legally innocent at this point in time, then that's your decision. However, as we are only privy to information that has been released to the public and there are clearly big pieces of the puzzle missing, I have made the decision to respect those of the professionals involved. So in accordance with what is not just international law but basic common sense, as he has not been found guilty in a court of law at this time, then I will not treat him as guilty at this time.


This type of logic is really bothering me. Unless I'm mistaken, you're saying that unless a man is convicted of a crime, the fact that he had sex with and married his 16 year-old student doesn't bother you and you feel that the lack of a conviction means that he should be treated as if he hasn't done anything wrong. What if you knew a guy who liked to scream racial epithets and derogatory insults at people of a different race or religion than him? He hasn't committed any crime as there were no threats or violence, so that wouldn't change your opinion or treatment of him? What about a guy who you've seen kick dogs for fun. You report him to the authorities, yet for some reason or another he doesn't get charged with animal cruelty.

Now, you seem to be a decent guy, so I'm going to assume that knowing that he enjoys hurting animals would not only change your opinion of him, but cause you to treat him differently. Now, you could say that that's too different because you actually saw him do it, but regardless of what's been proven in a court of law, the fact stands that Guardiola both married and had sex with his student. If you would in fact treat the dog-kicker differently, why wouldn't it be okay for Guardiola's actions to alter people's treatment of him as well?

People have the right to treat others differently based on many, many things that don't even need to be illegal. Hell, your opinion of someone could change because of the way they treat women or because they're rude to waiters. Therefore, why is it not okay to treat Guardiola a certain way seeing as he clearly treated modern societal standards with contempt? Keep in mind; we know for a fact that he married her, so the fact that he did something that many would find wrong isn't something that's up for discussion.
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Polycell



Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 11:12 am Reply with quote
Guile wrote:
I am unsure why people are saying this man is a pedophile. Pedophelia is defined as being attracted to prepubescent children. 16 years is is in no way pedophelia. It would be ephebophilia, which is legal in many parts of the world, including some US states.
This much is true, but sadly we've gotten to the point where admitting attraction to someone 18 years less a day is enough to be branded a pedophile, which instantly makes you subhuman and worthy of being castrated.
dtm42 wrote:
The fact that the mother approved of such a creepy marriage and did not help the police investigation is proof enough that she doesn't have the best judgement when it comes to her daughter.
Someone with more information is ipso facto wrong for not coming to the same conclusion as one with less? There's a reason why parental permission can lower the marriage age.
Quote:
This one however was on the order of "oh crap, the authorities are onto me, let's flee to Vegas baby where the marriage age is a year younger and get hitched straightaway".
16 year-olds can marry with parental permission in Texas. Going out-of-state was probably to dodge any problems the active investigation might cause.
Quote:
there were anonymous phonecalls from other possible victims that the police were never able to track down
Victim statements that could never be verified and therefore cannot be considered. They could've easily been made by pranksters, angry ex-girlfriends or moral guardians out to hang him.
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Stuart Smith



Joined: 13 Jan 2013
Posts: 1298
PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 1:30 pm Reply with quote
Polycell wrote:
This much is true, but sadly we've gotten to the point where admitting attraction to someone 18 years less a day is enough to be branded a pedophile, which instantly makes you subhuman and worthy of being castrated.


Even calling him an ephebophile is inaccurate. Pedophile and ephebophile are defined as exclusive or primary attraction to those age ranges. As in, a person is hardwired to only find those people attractive. The words have become grossly misused in society to label anyone who participates in sexual acts There are plenty of people who would have sex with adult women as well as teenage girls, simply because they are horny and will take any sexual encounters they can as men are often programmed to

This is why certain groups of doctors and psychologists have called pedophelia a sexual preference, much to the outcry of a lot of groups. It's something that can not be helped and you are born with, much like homosexuality. Someone who sleeps with a 16 year old doesn't make them an ephebophile unless they only find attraction in 16 year olds and would turn down adult partners if offered. I don't think any of us know enough about Guardiola to say if he uninterested in adult women.

-Stuart Smith
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