Forum - View topicNEWS: Anime Production Companies, Manga Publishers Crack Down on Piracy
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mdo7
Posts: 6361 Location: Katy, Texas, USA |
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Yeah, and embrassingly, Japan's neighbor to the west, South Korea is more technologically advanced then Japan when it comes to IT/ICT development. That's why South Korea remain #1 on the IT/ICT development ranking for the last few years. South Korea also take international market seriously unlike Japan. A little off topic: most of the cool cutting edge tech I've seen coming out of Asia are coming from South Korea or Taiwan, but for Japan not a lot. I've been observing the technology development from Asia, South Korea and Taiwan is way ahead of Japan in term of Technological development. About the gaming market, South Korea's gaming market has more money then Japan (South Korea's gaming market is worth $9.16 billion!!!! Much bigger then Japan's $4.6 billion). Also the PS4 almost sold out in South Korea when it first came out and it sold better there then in Japan. Maybe in the future, LG or Samsung could make a gaming console more powerful then Playstation 4.
You're not alone, I find this number absurd too. Also I'm a skeptic of Japan's piracy claim because as I mention I have evidence that made me question their claim. Oh and before I put the evidence: To moderators (including Tony. K): Please do not delete my post, this is within the scope relating to piracy. This is not a K-pop soapboxing or rant, so don't delete my post people on ANN need to know this. and to Tony.K : Tony, I think it's about time for people on ANN to qustion Japan's claim on piracy, I'm going to put the evidence of K-pop and piracy on this post. So please don't delete or edit my post, it's relevent and people on ANN need to know this. All right, I think a lot of you on ANN know I'm a big K-pop/Hallyu fan. I understand K-pop doesn't have any relevence on ANN a lot. But a lot of you should be glad I'm a K-pop fan because I'm going to show you the evidence that made me question Japan's piracy claim. As a lot of you know, Korean pop music, K-drama and a lot of other Korean pop stuff get heavily pirated, read this article: BH Discuss: Would Hallyu ever be possible without piracy? Yes, K-pop and K-dramas are heavily pirated on the same level as anime and manga. Now you would think all this pirating would hurt Korean firm/companies and cause loss of profits, here's the shocker: It didn't. K-pop's big three: SM, YG, and JYP Entertainment had seen great revenue for the last 3 years despite widespread piracy of K-pop. Here's a graph showing how much revenue the Korean music industry has been making: You see that, Korean music industry are making a lot of money despite piracy being rampart. South Korea's music market became the 10th largest market in the world. I'll quote this:
Also an article from The Korea Times said this:
I like to add that Japan's music sales continue to decline for the last few years. So here's are the questions I want to ask all of you (and Tempest if you're reading this, please answer them for me): Why are Korean pop content still gaining a lot of profit despite Piracy being widespread? How come the piracy of Korean contents didn't hurt the revenue of Korean firms/companies? Why is piracy hurting Japan's anime/manga but not causing any loss of profit on the Korean content industry?? How is piracy hurting anime/manga but not effecting K-pop and K-drama?? See these evidence made me glad why I'm a k-pop/Hallyu/anime fan, because it made me open up my mind and question Japan's claim on piracy. Again to any moderator: don't delete this post, it's within the scope of the topic regarding piracy. Last edited by mdo7 on Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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kanechin
Posts: 447 |
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so....I'm gonna keep being a terrible person....love to sin baby!
Now if certain events become a reality then I'll stop using "grey" sites...but those events are 98% unlikely to happen soooooo. |
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yuna49
Posts: 3804 |
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Thank you for that analysis. I looked at that number and could hardly control my laughter. How large would the US market need to be to make $20 billion a plausible piracy figure? Oricon estimated 2012 manga revenues in Japan at $11 billion. The US market is two orders of magnitude smaller; Publisher's Weekly cites a figure of about $105 million in 2012. As for anime, another article here placed total US anime revenues in 2009 at about $2.7 billion. Even if we generously assume that the market for anime has boomed since then and imagine total revenues at $4 billion in 2014, we're still looking at a total market for anime and manga in the US that is about a fifth the alleged costs from piracy. These costs shrink further when we look at how those anime revenues are earned. In 2009 sales of DVDs and films generated about $320 million. Sales of character goods generated nearly eight times as much revenue, coming in at $2.420 billion!. I'd bet most of that revenue comes from products for children like licensed Pokemon goods. Those earnings aren't going to increase much if piracy of the actual content is better restricted. If anything, the market for figurines and dakimakara in the West will probably shrink as a result. That $20 billion estimate truly is absurd, and I'd bet the Ministry of Economy knows it is absurd. They should be ashamed. |
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agila61
Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
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This is an important point. It is important to bear in mind that before copyright laws were ever passed, people argued and thought through whether or not it was morally and ethically right to trample on the legitimate rights of creators of original works to benefit from the original work that they create. The original institution of copyright was created, and so the laws to enforce it were written, to work on the rule that the creator gets to dictate who may and who may not make copies of their work. However, it was developed in the aftermath of the development of movable type, and then extended to media like film, records, CDs and finally video discs. Modern technology means that it has become possible for large numbers of people to become online thugs and trample on the legitimate rights of the creators of content. And because that thuggery results in freeloader getting to have content "for free", a side effect has been the development of piles of rationalizations for that thuggery, as to why those who did not do the work "ought to have" the right to exploit those who did do the work. In the end, its about power. Its like a city where institutions of law and order have broken down, where the question of whether a young man who owns a baseball bat mugs an old lady is about whether they choose to assault the old lady, and not about whether they fear punishment as a result of doing so. |
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Adv193
Posts: 189 |
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Part of the issue in this debate is the lack of legal alternatives and unless if solutions aren't made then piracy will not shrink. At the very least I like watching anime legally on Hulu, and I put up with the Ads because a. It is a small price to pay b. They are not as hard to deal with compared to real commercial c. I show my devotion that I do not pirate what is available legally and would like to show support in legal streams as an alternative to pirating.
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jr240483
Posts: 4430 Location: New York City,New York,USA |
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the main question though is why are they focusing on china when the cost of piracy is more in the old USA? if i was them, i would focus more on the western sites since, especially some fansub sites.
However there is another problem. while its good their doing something about it, unfortunately they never said anything about curbing piracy when it comes to 18+ OVAs like some of those lilith / Pixy titles and many others. Cause if fansubbers and illegal streamers cant do their stuff with the non ero series, then they would just move on with the ero series. |
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phifedawg
Posts: 40 |
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I don't think this is unreasonable at all. Episodes of popular anime do numbers in the hundreds of thousands on torrent sites, plus all the people streaming, you can probably double that easily. I don't know any numbers for scanlations but I imagine its incredibly high compared to book sales. |
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Blanchimont
Posts: 3543 Location: Finland |
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Well, has it worked? You be the judge of that... @phifedawg But do all those numbers translate to paying customers even if there were no piracy? And 'hundreds of thousands' is a bit of an exaggeration. One or two movies might get that of a high number, and even then I'm somewhat sceptical... Also, if you look at the piracy of western shows, and even of western comics, I think you'd find the ratio between revenue and download numbers quite similar. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if the anime camp left the western side in shame... |
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yuna49
Posts: 3804 |
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You do realize that fansubbers and illegal website operators serve a worldwide audience, right? With legal streaming much more the norm in North America, a lot of those people downloading torrents live in other countries where anime is legally much less available. (There's a comment from someone in one of those countries above.) And even if there are hundreds of thousands of downloads of an episode of some show, what proportion of those people would be prepared to spend money to watch if that were the only choice? My guess is, for most popular shows, the figure has to be ten percent or perhaps even less. Remember we are trying to estimate the actual economic costs; pirates who wouldn't watch a show if it is not free don't cost the producers anything. To imagine that all or most of those hundreds of thousands of downloads constitutes a lost sale is a fallacy.
No, popular shows often exceed 100,000 downloads per episode. I just checked Kill la Kill, and it broke that ceiling. Shingeki no Kyoujin did as well. Even a show like Gekkan Shoujo Nozaki-kun is running about 50,000 downloads per episode. "Hundreds of thousands" might be an overstatement, but the volume of torrenting is still quite substantial. |
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phifedawg
Posts: 40 |
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I don't know but I think it would make a huge difference, just based off the fact that piracy is so prevalent in anime fandom, I see it everywhere (except ANN and CR forums). Go post an anti-piracy comment on the Manga subreddit and see how many downvotes you get. For most people its the default way to get stuff. This is the problem.
Theres still advertising revenue to be made. It could be going to a site like Daisuki instead of some illegal streaming site. For manga its a bit more difficult. |
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ZiharkXVI
Posts: 387 |
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Sopa and pipa were definitely not solving an online piracy problem. Just wanted to make sure we're clear there. They were called solutions, but if you really examine them, its less and less clear how they help at all. |
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Hideki-Motosuwa
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As much as they want to try, I don't see this going to be a win in their favor at all. It's already bad enough that the list of sites is already out so what's not stopping those sites from changing their domain or backing up their database only to comply with the demand and then reopen as another site behind their back. Pretty stupid on Japan's part on this one.
I don't blame them for trying to do this but I can't honestly can't see them getting anywhere with this. |
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TonyTonyChopper
Posts: 258 |
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First see then believing how far this goes ?
If they really going to force this through Japan has to change as well !!! first make anime and manga at least on the internet legal available to everyone, it is just utterly stupid that many modern European country's you don't even have anything in this day and age Once they have come with a solution to this there is still the problem with money involved how much are you going to ask for offering it legal ? or have huge advertisment that could make it almost free. Cause many people still aren't going to pay for it anyway .... And that video that showed a person buying a Japanese dvd !!! you know how expensive they are !!! that system must also change in order to make a bigger profit by just having more unit's sold instead. |
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Polycell
Posts: 4623 |
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EDIT: I should add that this issue's already been put to trial in the US in DOWLING v. UNITED STATES. Supreme Court's ruling: generic theft statutes don't apply to copyright infringement.
Last edited by Polycell on Thu Jul 31, 2014 9:19 am; edited 1 time in total |
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dudebro
Posts: 42 |
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Here's something from Google Trends:
If you Google anime watch, Hulu and Crunchyroll don't show up until the middle of the second page. It would likely make a big difference if they had a much higher search ranking. People who watch streams are unlikely to care whether it's legal or not as long as it Just Works™ (though I think free members on Crunchy can't stream the latest episode immediately). People who are savvy and discriminating enough to use torrents are more likely to be hardcore fans who purchase BDs and figures. If you could flip a switch and make all those torrents disappear, you'd probably lose rather than gain revenue. That said, I think HorribleSubs is almost always the most popular choice on the torrent site that starts with the letter N, so what is making these people torrent rather than stream the content? Maybe, like Gabe Newell said, it's a service problem. |
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