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musouka wrote:

Well, in the way that he meant it, yes? I'd rather not have a repeat of the American comic book industry.

Comics books are a bit different, though. Yeah, there you got long time fans who come in and sell Spiderman's marrage to the devil because the writer thinks Spiderman is only interesting when he's single. But with anime, it's not set up where some new writer can be given control of Dragonball and then change Goku as he pleases.

I get that Miyazaki isn't happy with the way things are animated these days. That's fine, but does he really need to envoke that stereotype that all otaku are socially incompotent shut ins?

But I suppose I can't expect anything less from the man who openly hates moe, yet has the majority of his movies star cute young girls.

Last edited by Leebo on Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:44 pm; edited 1 time in total

DmonHiro wrote:

This article was very poorly translated from Japanese.
What he actually said was about animation. Animators no longer spend time watching real humans move (because they hate humans), so they don't really animate it realistically anymore. It didn't have much to do with otaku.

http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/goldennews/imgs/8/7/87b16d97.jpg

Assuming these captions are accurate, it sounds like he is talking about otaku at the bottom and it doesn't seem positive.

To be fair, I'm a beginner in studying Japanese.

FireChick wrote:

That's...actually a really good point. But I don't watch anime because I don't like looking at other people. I admit, I'm kind of a shy person who has trouble making friends, but the friends I've made have been a very positive influence on my life, and the only reason I haven't made any newer friends right now is because I'm kind of undergoing an adjustment period and under a LOT of stress. But I don't watch anime because I want to get away from people. I just watch it as a way to get away from the stress in my life, and because some other American-made cartoons don't really appeal to me (but that doesn't mean I hate all American cartoons! I adore the Avatar series and My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic!). But I can see where Miyazaki'd get that sentiment, and in a way I do kinda agree with him. Instead of churning all of these stupid wish fulfillment harem and fanservice anime, we need to recruit people who actually have ambition and want to make passionate, ambitious anime, just like before, not that there aren't any in this day and age.

I may not watch My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic, but I am going through the same exact situation as you are. And I agree, that a majority of anime has lost its true meaning and inspiration. Nowadays, it usually caters to excessive fanservice and how violent it can be.

DmonHiro wrote:

This article was very poorly translated from Japanese.
What he actually said was about animation. Animators no longer spend time watching real humans move (because they hate humans), so they don't really animate it realistically anymore. It didn't have much to do with otaku.

Thanks for clearing that up, still worlds better than crunchyrolls articles. They edit too much and it's kind of insulting..

Vaisa:

Quote:

Heaven forbid that anime should be made by people who really love anime.

They don't love anime. They love the circle-jerking aspect of their in-joke anime. You know, like Gainax.

Quote:

That's fine, but does he really need to envoke that stereotype that all otaku are socially incompotent shut ins?

Enough of them are that it's a national problem in Japan.

Quote:

But I suppose I can't expect anything less from the man who openly hates moe, yet has the majority of his movies star cute young girls.

Ghibli =/= moe.

Witch:

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otaku money is the only thing that can keep the ship afloat.

Otaku money's about as reliable as that YA money.

He brings up an interesting point, but this seems less like an accurate reading of a problem and more like he just wants to insult a group based on stereotypes, I also wonder just how much his relationship with his son plays into his somewhat jaded view of the anime industry.

Yes there is always the issue that as a genre grows older the generations that later take over are mostly made up of fans of the past generation, this can lead to annoying self referencing an in-jokes (which pop up in any medium).

I don't think the issue is that the anime industry is filled with people who can't stand to look at others, but I there is an issue where some directors play so many ero games that they feel the need to include the terminology in their anime when it has no place!

Miyazaki hates everything, though.

musouka wrote:

Well, in the way that he meant it, yes? I'd rather not have a repeat of the American comic book industry.

The American comic book industry is what it is today is because of multiple factors, none of which anime has to go through. No Comic Codes Authority, no one genre dominating the market, no lack of interest in reading from the general public in general, no continuity problems or insane writers who take over long established series and decide to change everything and piss off long-time readers There's little reason to fear anime going the way of that.

FireChick wrote:

Instead of churning all of these stupid wish fulfillment harem and fanservice anime, we need to recruit people who actually have ambition and want to make passionate, ambitious anime, just like before

This is no less an ignorant statement than the one Miyazaki made. Plenty of non 'stupid wish fulfillment harem and fanservice anime' get made and 'stupid wish fulfillment harem and fanservice anime' have existed for decades and is nothing new to begin with. So just how far back is 'just like before'?

Mister:

Quote:

The American comic book industry is what it is today is because of multiple factors, none of which anime has to go through.

It's not dissimilar, actually. A mostly "boys only" club which caters to the worst stereotypes of the medium. The only difference is that, in Japan, it's underage little sisters hitting on you, or being raped by tentacles, while in America, it's dudes shooting off criminals' heads with submachine guns. Rolling Eyes

You can't write a book about people if you don't know people. I know his statement isn't going to be swallowed with ease in community of anime fans, but I don't think it's far-fetched to say that huge portition of anime characters today are obviously built upon industry tropes instead of human emotions. It's not something somebody not obsessively into anime is going to relate to.
Not all anime today is like this, but otaku money is keeping the industry afloat, and the otaku likes their exclusive tropes. It's pretty obvious what kinds of shows and characters these companies will more often support.

DmonHiro wrote:

This article was very poorly translated from Japanese.
What he actually said was about animation. Animators no longer spend time watching real humans move (because they hate humans), so they don't really animate it realistically anymore. It didn't have much to do with otaku.

That is what I got from it too. Perhaps the article should be revised so that it can reflect that. I do agree with him however.

grooven wrote:

DmonHiro wrote:

This article was very poorly translated from Japanese.
What he actually said was about animation. Animators no longer spend time watching real humans move (because they hate humans), so they don't really animate it realistically anymore. It didn't have much to do with otaku.

That is what I got from it too. Perhaps the article should be revised so that it can reflect that. I do agree with him however.

Still, what DmonHiro said implies that he didn't say "it's full of otaku" and I'm pretty sure he did.

http://i.minus.com/ieSGR8jP1bY7P.jpg

The young people getting into the industry (and moving up into important positions) are the ones who are otaku and like modern anime. Its inevitable that the biggest fans would want to make anime for a living.

yappers4 wrote:

I may not watch My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic, but I am going through the same exact situation as you are. And I agree, that a majority of anime has lost its true meaning and inspiration. Nowadays, it usually caters to excessive fanservice and how violent it can be.

Anime's true meaning you say? I suppose it did. I mean, it doesn't seem to be competing with Disney anymore...

But seriously, the meaning of anime is to be entertaining. If a lot of people are entertained by fanservice and violence, then the industry is doing its job.

musouka wrote:

Vaisaga wrote:

Heaven forbid that anime should be made by people who really love anime.

Well, in the way that he meant it, yes? I'd rather not have a repeat of the American comic book industry.

What does this even mean?

An industry where there is still a sizable market putting out tons of quality things that aren't just super heroes.

If moe/fanservice anime are the equal to the super hero part in this analogy, then well I'd rather it be like the Comic book market because in the comic book market I am swamped with things that are not the face of the medium. I have more then one publisher making plenty of things that are varied, smart, challenging, and not just about dudes in capes. One of those publishers is having such a great time right now that it is on the verge of publishing more independent and interesting content then over before and it dosen't hurt that the stuff is selling great.

Seems like the North American Comic book industry is in a pretty awesome spot to me.

Animeking1108 wrote:

If you can't make something because you love the art form, then what should you make it for? Money?

i think that saying otaku in general "love the art form" might be overstating it. some do, but plenty of them are just garden-variety fanboys who like shows that cater to their tastes and howl like apes when a company (say, KyoAni) "betrays" them by making shows that don't target them (Free, for instance)

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