×
  • remind me tomorrow
  • remind me next week
  • never remind me
Subscribe to the ANN Newsletter • Wake up every Sunday to a curated list of ANN's most interesting posts of the week. read more

Forum - View topic
The Future State of North American Anime


Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

Anime News Network Forum Index -> General -> Anime
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
indrik



Joined: 22 Jul 2006
Posts: 365
Location: yonder
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:23 pm Reply with quote
I had another thought here. I wonder if we'll start to see more situations like Geneon and Geneon USA, where they effectively don't have to pay licensing fees except internally. Shuffling money around to different divisions. They would still need the domestic (ie, not Japanese) arm of the company to handle distribution and local dubbing, but that would be another way to compete with the Bandai/BVUSA types, perhaps.

I don't think anime is going to go away. It might go back to where it was 20 years ago, in comic stores and specialty stores and the bottom shelf of the sci-fi aisle at Blockbuster. But I don't think it's going away. If you look around, there are tons of little companie filling niches like this in every industry you could think of, and making reasonable amounts of money at it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LydiaDianne



Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 5634
Location: Southern California
PostPosted: Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:38 pm Reply with quote
indrik wrote:

I don't think anime is going to go away. It might go back to where it was 20 years ago, in comic stores and specialty stores and the bottom shelf of the sci-fi aisle at Blockbuster. But I don't think it's going away. If you look around, there are tons of little companie filling niches like this in every industry you could think of, and making reasonable amounts of money at it.


Well, if it does, unlike 20 years ago, we won't have to hunt too hard...due to the Internet and wonderful places like TRSI! With whom I have a love/hate relationship with...they love me and I hate myself! Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
The Seventh Son



Joined: 27 Nov 2005
Posts: 380
Location: Where your missing socks end up.
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 10:42 am Reply with quote
20 years ago!? nah, theres a solid enough fanbase now to keep it at a higher level than that. the fanbase might drop a good amount, but there are enough fans out there - that arent all older guys and some older girls - that can keep the fanbase going. the internet helps too, since so many people today have a computer.

plus we will have better dubs than back in the 80s. there will be less titles, but there will be a higher ratio of good:bad than there is now in the market.

maybe the companies could try this: find a small fansub group and in turn for shutting down, pay them to make the dubs and subs more accurate.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Pepperidge



Joined: 13 Sep 2003
Posts: 1106
Location: British Columbia, Canada
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 10:08 pm Reply with quote
KyuuA4 wrote:
However, one thing anime has done is reduce domestic American animation. If these studios wish to keep up, they'll have to adopt the anime style themselves.


I disagree. If they want to "keep up", companies that produce animation have to escape from the mentality of directing everything at either 6-11 or 18-34 audiences.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
10円



Joined: 17 Jan 2007
Posts: 605
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 10:28 pm Reply with quote
The Seventh Son wrote:
20 years ago!? nah, theres a solid enough fanbase now to keep it at a higher level than that. the fanbase might drop a good amount, but there are enough fans out there - that arent all older guys and some older girls - that can keep the fanbase going. the internet helps too, since so many people today have a computer.


The internet helps? Possibly, but probably not nearly as much as it hurts. Nothing I've read emphatically states that global viewership is substantially falling, rather it's the sales and profits that have been falling. Why? Maybe it's related to that choice tool of massively distributed piracy you just alluded to. So, instead of a solid base of fans we have a solid base of pseudo-fans. These are people who love to watch anime but simply prefer not to pay for it.

The Seventh Son wrote:
maybe the companies could try this: find a small fansub group and in turn for shutting down, pay them to make the dubs and subs more accurate.


I'm sorry, but what exactly does the company get out of this idea of yours? They already pay for people to translate subs and dubs but now they'd be rewarding pirates in the process? What about all the other fansub groups who would remain unpaid? Would they not just pick up wherever the first group to get paid left off? Your suggestion doesn't seem to make any sense from my perspective.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LydiaDianne



Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 5634
Location: Southern California
PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2007 10:50 pm Reply with quote
Pepperidge wrote:
KyuuA4 wrote:
However, one thing anime has done is reduce domestic American animation. If these studios wish to keep up, they'll have to adopt the anime style themselves.


I disagree. If they want to "keep up", companies that produce animation have to escape from the mentality of directing everything at either 6-11 or 18-34 audiences.


Well, there's nothing wrong with targeting those age groups, it's just the fact they are writing the scripts to the intelligence level of the bottom 20%. Or am I being too generous with 20% and it should be the bottom 10%?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
ikillchicken



Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7272
Location: Vancouver
PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2007 4:44 am Reply with quote
But if they focus on those groups theyre neglecting what is mostlikely their largest market; teens.

I agree with Pepperidge. We need to see more Teen Anime. Not so mature that it gets rated 18+ and runs into all kindsa problems, but not more of this little kids crap.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime
ANBUx3



Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 187
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 8:14 am Reply with quote
Does anyone else think that it's partially because the anime choices lately aren't as good? To me, it seems like most of the newer series are cutesy, moe-ish, visual novel adaptations, usually involving school girls. A few are fine, but it's getting out of hand.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dencore



Joined: 08 Mar 2007
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 8:54 am Reply with quote
ikillchicken wrote:
The Seventh Son wrote:
oh great. thats the last thing we need. american animation starting to copy anime more and more.


why is that bad? I can certainly see the reverse, Anime becoming more like american animation being bad. But if American animation copys Anime it really doesnt even effect Anime/Anime fans.


Americans can make anime if they want but it shouldn't overshadow or stand in the same league as Japanese anime. You don't know why it shouldn't? Look what Americans have done to video games to seek your answer.

Pepperidge wrote:
KyuuA4 wrote:
However, one thing anime has done is reduce domestic American animation. If these studios wish to keep up, they'll have to adopt the anime style themselves.


I disagree. If they want to "keep up", companies that produce animation have to escape from the mentality of directing everything at either 6-11 or 18-34 audiences.


Agreed, many domastic shows have broken through. Look at Aqua Teen Hunger Force, Metalocalypse, Family Guy, American Dad, etc.

As for anime on the decline, I think that's pretty funny due to the fact that more anime is coming to the U.S. then ever before, and every single article I've ever read just says it's getting more popular. To the TC, why would you get so scared about this from ONE article while their are hundreds that are saying the opposite? Hell they do this for EVERY SINGLE media out there. 5 years ago I remember reading articles about a MASSIVE decline in the gaming industry. And did it happen? No! I remember reading articles about a big decline in the TV industry. My point is writers do this for everything just to grab your attention. If anime is selling less and less it's probably because the fact that licesers are focusing on teenagers and adults more often then children now *kids are were all the moneys at* If anime was declining then they wouldn't be licensing so much due to the fact that it's a waste of money. Could you please post a link to this article please at least?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Iritscen
Subscriber



Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 794
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 10:43 am Reply with quote
Dencore wrote:
Pepperidge wrote:
If they want to "keep up", companies that produce animation have to escape from the mentality of directing everything at either 6-11 or 18-34 audiences.


Agreed, many domastic shows have broken through. Look at Aqua Teen Hunger Force, Metalocalypse, Family Guy, American Dad, etc.


Well, those are all aimed at 20-35 year olds, roughly. They're going for the college crowd, not teens.

--------------
As to the question of anime becoming mainstream, it all depends on your definition of mainstream. It can be difficult for us to view our choice of entertainment objectively, but seriously, Americans don't know what anime is. It's not even close to being mainstream. Mainstream isn't Pokemon selling well -- how many parents even know that Pokemon is from Japan? It's just a show that does well here that's aimed at kids.

In my opinion, the definition of mainstream can be summarized by this: can it play on primetime TV? If no one will put anime on at primetime, it's not mainstream. And no, Cartoon Network doesn't count. I'm talking about a channel that has a reputation for showing adult-oriented shows like Law & Order. The only animated series I can think of which made it to primetime were The Simpsons and Pinky & The Brain. Only The Simpsons has endured for years in that slot. But anime isn't even close to becoming primetime fodder.

Sometimes I think you guys overstimate the informedness (word?) of the general public. Every time there's a man-on-the-street poll I'm amazed at how ignorant people really are. So, in short, no one gets anime but us few standing in the corner. It's a niche interest.

------------
On the topic of licensing fees, I too have heard that the Japanese are killing our companies by jacking up the prices. Well, isn't capitalism supposed to manage this kind of thing? I mean, if dubbers stop biting because of price, the price is supposed to come down. It's a supply-demand thing. Perhaps we just haven't quite gotten to the point where the Japanese have realized they're killing us.

(Actually, another effect of capitalism is usually that only the big companies can afford to stay in business as the supplier seeks his maximum price point, so all the litle companies die off or are absorbed by the big ones. Unfortunately, we're already seeing it happen. I hate capitalism. Bring back the barter system any day.)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
gary leeman



Joined: 24 Nov 2006
Posts: 70
Location: The Big Apple
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 1:38 pm Reply with quote
Summarizing that if anime doesn't play on primetime TV, it isn't mainstream, doesn't get to the root of why it isn't widely accepted here. It's just a different culture here, that's all. People like live action programs. Save for The Simpsons, which used to be on weeknights at the beginning of their run, but was moved to Sunday probably 10 years ago, you don't find animation on the major networks during primetime, regardless of the genre. I recall a CG show about a family of lions, starring John Goodman and Cheryl Hines a couple years ago on NBC, which didn't last more than a half-season I'm sure (I don't know exactly how long, as I wasn't watching, but neither were most people). It just seems that adult age viewers will not watch animation during primetime on the major networks.

Anime is never going to be mainstream here as it is in Japan. It's definitely a popular form of entertainment, that's for sure. It adds variety to what is available for viewing. But it will never become a major player in the US media landscape. There is a lot of diversity over here, and anime will just be another candy in the bowl.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
gary leeman



Joined: 24 Nov 2006
Posts: 70
Location: The Big Apple
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 1:54 pm Reply with quote
I also am pretty discouraged to hear that companies are losing money on anime, and in order to keep making profits, they are sending shows to be dubbed in Singapore. This really doesn't help anyone, as I have never heard a positive word regarding a Singapore dub.
I know its a tough road to be on, but I am not going to support a dub done there. As it has been said, the US anime market is saturated with DVDs. I'm not an economist, and I don't have the answers on how to fix the current situation, but as a consumer I choosing not to buy a poor-quality dub show.
We really are somewhat spoiled over here; we constantly wish and anticipate series from Japan to be bought and subbed/dubbed for the US. This doesn't have to happen. We're lucky that it does. But theres almost no point in doing it if it's not going to be worthwhile of watching over and over.

Hopefully there will be a balance that is formed, one that is stable.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Iritscen
Subscriber



Joined: 25 Apr 2006
Posts: 794
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 2:13 pm Reply with quote
gary leeman wrote:
Summarizing that if anime doesn't play on primetime TV, it isn't mainstream, doesn't get to the root of why it isn't widely accepted here.


Well, you're right, I wasn't trying to get to the root of the cultural difference, not here. I already devoted a little rant to that once before.

The short version of it was:
Iritscen wrote:
I have to throw in my two cents and say that, imho, America is one of the most literal-minded countries in the world. I'm not saying that's good or bad, and it has little to do with ignorance. It's just a fact that this country was built on pragmatic, industrious people who had little time for art, and we've only had a handful of generations go by since that time.

We simply don't have much of a history of art appreciation or contribution to the art world in the U.S. (though part of that is simply due to our newness as a country), so it shouldn't be too surprising that most Americans can't take animation seriously aside from us "nerds".


Apparently that's a controversial stance to some of my fellow Americans, but I still stand by it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
HeeroTX



Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 2046
Location: Austin, TX
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 3:11 pm Reply with quote
gary leeman wrote:
I recall a CG show about a family of lions, starring John Goodman and Cheryl Hines a couple years ago on NBC, which didn't last more than a half-season I'm sure (I don't know exactly how long, as I wasn't watching, but neither were most people). It just seems that adult age viewers will not watch animation during primetime on the major networks.

That's not really a good example since it was a terrible show. South Park has run for many years, even though it is animated (altho, granted not on an "over the air" network). The problem is a combination of animation gaining acceptance (especially for people older than 10) in the US coupled with a need to make GOOD animated programming. I mean, if you basically making "soon to be failed sitcom X" and just make it animated as a gimmick, the show ain't gonna make it regardless. An interesting question (and history says "no") is if America will see a show like "Lost", "24" or "Law & Order" as an animated show in Prime Time. If you could get a top flight show that happens to be animated and it fails, THEN it's more a question of the acceptance of animation, vs. a crappy show that is animated failing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Zalis116
Moderator


Joined: 31 Mar 2005
Posts: 6897
Location: Kazune City
PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2007 4:10 pm Reply with quote
ANBUx3 wrote:
Does anyone else think that it's partially because the anime choices lately aren't as good? To me, it seems like most of the newer series are cutesy, moe-ish, visual novel adaptations, usually involving school girls. A few are fine, but it's getting out of hand.
I'd tend to agree with this -- from some con panels and maybe an AskJohn column, the supply of wide-appeal, mainstream-type anime still available to be licensed is dwindling. If you cut out sports, shoujo, and "vintage" (not sure how old that means) anime that doesn't have much sales potential, there's not too much left, so the companies are increasingly left with the fanboy/otaku-targeted anime, like AIR and Rozen Maiden. It doesn't seem like we're seeing many of the "hip" action/comedy series like we did 9 or 10 years ago with Bebop, Trigun, and Outlaw Star, aside from wannabe retreads like GunxSword..
Iritscen wrote:
On the topic of licensing fees, I too have heard that the Japanese are killing our companies by jacking up the prices. Well, isn't capitalism supposed to manage this kind of thing? I mean, if dubbers stop biting because of price, the price is supposed to come down. It's a supply-demand thing. Perhaps we just haven't quite gotten to the point where the Japanese have realized they're killing us.
You would think so, but from what I've heard at a few convention "State of the Industry" panels, the Japanese companies have an oddly stubborn mindset when it comes to these matters--they'll hold out the prices they want, hoping that things will get better and the US companies will come through, regardless of market conditions or the marketability of the anime in question. I just hope that ADV managed to negotiate down the allegedly stratospheric price for AIR.

I don't know, hearing about Geneon's Saiunkoku announcement today makes me wonder...if Geneon is in a tough spot as some are saying, why are they going off and licensing a 39-episode series? Wouldn't it be better to save the money spent on those licensing fees to make their current releases better, rather than stretching themselves to the limits to release large amounts of lesser-quality junk?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message My Anime My Manga
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Anime News Network Forum Index -> General -> Anime All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 3 of 5

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group