Forum - View topicThe X Button - Littered Picks
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DKL
![]() Posts: 1956 Location: California, USA |
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Oh yeah, just in case people were wondering, Rune Factory 4 actually sort of has a yuri option...
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Jave
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I'm actually more bothered at the dismissal of nepotism being a problem. I mean, sure, if we're talking working as cashier or some other menial job then it doesn't mean much ![]() ![]() [quote="Chagen45']I feel that the intense backlash is actually proof that the a person I disagree with politically types are losing however--they're scared, and fear turns to rage quickly. Before they were so assured of their privileged positions that they found even getting mad at any feminist efforts to be beneath them, but now they're legit terrified of the possibility of losing their privilege (as most of them are pathetic people who hold on to their privilege as it's the only way they have for denying their own patheticness) so they're freaking out and going on the defensive. Hopefully they'll lose. Hopefully.[/quote] ![]() http://strawpoll.me/865387/r I'd love to be a fly on the wall in Capcom's office right now though.. they must be having a good laugh at all the M9 stuff ![]() |
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RestLessone
![]() Posts: 1426 Location: New York |
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I don't play Mega Man nor do I know much about this topic. However, I do want to comment about the use of Internet polls as proof of what people care about. It's an issue that actual psychologists deal with: people lie on surveys. They fear judgment or admitting that they and their group believe [x], among other reasons. An easy response for the racist/homophobe/etc. is to claim that the person is simply unqualified or not right for the job. It clears them of bigotry. Being sexist--or saying a person's gender renders them unqualified for jobs--is seen as a negative in today's society and media. It's easier to skirt the issue and make up excuses than to be upfront. This may indicate what a society's values are or where they are going, but it does not erase what a segment of the population believes. Certainly some people think she is unqualified or are upset by the nepotism, but that her gender appears to come up so often is troublesome. In any case, I think the great chunk of people worried about a 'feminist agenda' offsets that so few people are voting 'because she is an icky woman.' Last edited by RestLessone on Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
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TrailOfDead
Posts: 198 |
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doesn't the blame fall more on the backers throwing a tantrum in that scenario? maybe the solution is for fans to stop acting like entitled little shits about other people's creative output |
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damien tobin
Posts: 3 |
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[quote="Kyogissun"] It's disgusting how often people just assume they know what the problem is and fail to inform themselves on the topic and just make their thoughts on topics like these mirror someone else's thoughts and loose their identity in an attempt to feel like they have some nonsensical feeling of 'belonging' to a set of ideals or a similar mindset of others... So here, let me offer people the chance to inform themselves, because when I did, I had a better grasp of the situation.
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXDSfUJBCj0[/url][/quote] This is sadly ironic. The problem is, you're upset and angry that other people did insufficient research and just went by what they heard. Then instead of doing first-hand research, you went with what YOU heard. A video. Unfortunately, the video lies. It's the "Half a truth is often a great lie" sort of lies... but deception is still the name of the game. Luckily it's easily debunked. According to InternetAristocrat, Dina never played Mega Man before. And he had a screengrab of her tweet saying so. And she emailed people saying she'd played the games, so, he explains, she's a LIAR. Yes, that's a screengrab of her saying she never played it. Thing is, to get that screengrab, do you know what InternetAristocrat had to do? He had to go into her twitter history and scroll past the tweets of her playing the games in preparation for her new job. They're still there. Another screengrab if you like. http://oi39.tinypic.com/2r23fvp.jpg Yes, she did during the kickstarter say she never played the games. And then she thought she might get a job where she would've needed experience with the games, so she played them. But he left out that last part. He also pointed to a comment she said in the kickstarter comments, about how it would be cool to play as Call or a female Beck. And InternetAristocrat shared that screengrab of that, so we could all see that she wanted to change Beck's gender. Thing is, in order to get that screengrab, he would've needed to see the next thing she said: a clarification that she just wanted an option to play as female Beck. http://oi43.tinypic.com/hsomc8.jpg Like in Shovel Knight. It's actually an idea comcept had toyed with during the kickstarter campaign, well before they had hired her, but they decided it would've cost too much. And it goes on like that. Did she only get the job by nepotism? No, knowing people in the company meant she knew a job was available, but Inafune was hardly going to hire someone unqualified. She needs to speak and read Japanese and English, and she does that very well. She's got a degree in visual creation from Kyoto University of Art and Design, and she's got experience in game design ( http://toucharcade.com/2009/12/28/plushed-quirky-and-beautiful/ ). It doesn't matter who she knows in the company, she's qualified in her own right. And it goes on like that, he says she's designing for the game with her art style that's unsuited to it, she says she's not with a superior at the company backing her up on the Backers' forums. Yeah, she's an artist, it's a poor company, they said they'd find design work for her. But not on this game. He says we should be terrified she'll push a feminist agenda on the game, she laughs at the idea that the new girl essentially in the mail room can push a feminist agenda into the game Inafune is most interested in. Her superior laughs at the idea. Ben Judd laughs at the idea. It's just not a well-thought-out fear. It's sad that video has so many hits, and so many people are pointing to it going "if you just had the facts, here watch this!" It's a lie. So is it all about feminism? I don't know. You'd have to ask InternetAristocrat just what it was about Dina that made him want to lie about her for 20 minutes. |
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TehDarkPrince
Posts: 67 |
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![]() http://strawpoll.me/865387/r I'd love to be a fly on the wall in Capcom's office right now though.. they must be having a good laugh at all the M9 stuff ![]() Being a good community manager depends on what you're managing. If it's for a storied game franchise (which Mighty No. 9 is by association), then competently answering questions depends on your knowledge of that series' game mechanics, characters, and an overall history. Being active on the Blizzard forums made me appreciate what being a community manager entails. Core Mega Man doesn't have the convoluted lore of Diablo, but I wouldn't dare think that I would make a good community manager for Mighty No. 9, having played core megaman up to 8, x1-4, and the first legends-- I can't even remember which robot masters are in which game beyond 2, from memory. As I understand it, she is newly acquainted to Mega Man. It isn't fair to throw around a blanket accusation that everyone is just being sexist or afraid of feminism. I haven't read every post on the kickstarter, or tumblr, or 4chan regarding this. I'm fairly certain there is a by the books, legitimately sexist, misogynist, or anti-feminist element to this brew ha ha, even a few of each flavor. But its dishonest to assume that there isn't legitimacy to some of the criticism or grievance over this. |
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Rahxephon91
![]() Posts: 1859 Location: Park Forest IL. |
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The creative industry is all about knowing people. She got in because she knew someone. Thats not an issue at all.
Also she speaks Japanese and English and lives in Japan. I'm sure those qualities helped regardless if she played a MM game at all. I'm sure there are legitimate concerns, but I'm also sure a lot of it has to do with her gender and feminist views. I think it's pretty funny anyone thinks she's going to push an agenda on this game, this game that already has no real sexualized content. She's not any creative director and the game seems to use many designers. She's just one cog on the art side. Bedsides what agenda could she push in a cartoon game like this? Having a female robot as playable character? Oh no! I'm sure she locked her twitter for good reasons, this is the internet. No doubt she got some nasty messages. She obviously funded the project and the posted video makes it like she started the entire thing all for attention. Except that she was seemingly responding to someone else post on the MN9 kickstarter. How dare she make a post while on the internet while on a page she was watching because she was baking it. This has been a real sh!t storm and it's really over nothing. That's how silly it is. The game is going to get made and be fine. The people against Dima have really blown something out of porpotion. So she hasn't played a MegaMan game maybe, who cares? Why would that effect her job? She's not making the game. So she is a feminst? Ok so? The whole thing is really stupid. |
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belvadeer
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True, at least I can always visualize it. I wonder if any game would ever get that daring. I mean, yeah Skyrim does let you do same gender marriages outside of your species, but I want to see one where you actually do something further with it, not just have a wedding and that's it. You'd think JRPGs would be the perfect realm for that, what with the various kemono races they manage to whip up, but no, they always play it safe and stick with typical human "prince and princess" pairings, which is so dull and contrived by now that it's not very palatable for me anymore. |
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Vent
![]() Posts: 320 |
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No, it really isn't. |
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TehDarkPrince
Posts: 67 |
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It's a little more nuanced than simply knowing people. It's about knowing someone who is qualified for the job. If I were bring in someone for a storyboarding job simply because they're my friend, intimate life partner, or guild mate, and they aren't suited for the position, it would reflect poorly on me. Smaller, indie companies are usually more willing to put up with hiring less qualified people out of necessity. Community managers are often the face of the dev team for the online community. I've only seen 2 of her responses to questions, so maybe she already has this in spades, but unless you want only general answers to general questions (or require lots of go-between), the job demands an understanding of the content. By association to Mega Man, Mighty No. 9 has big, complicated history. I don't think I'd make a good community manager for a lot of things, Mega Man and Mighty No. 9 included. Just because Dina isn't actively developing the game, doesn't mean her job isn't somewhat important. A lot of people are quick to dismiss her position entirely, because she isn't "making the game".
You caught me! Whatever any of them say is code for "tits or GTFO." ![]() |
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Rahxephon91
![]() Posts: 1859 Location: Park Forest IL. |
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She was qualified. If the point of the community manager is to be bridge between the developers and the community she is perfect for the job as she is bi-lingual and located in Japan. Looking at that it makes since why she was offered the job, plus she had an in. What happen after that dosen't change that it made sense for her to get the job.
Somehow I doubt it. |
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Beatdigga
![]() Posts: 4450 Location: New York |
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The fact that her entire tenure has been a PR nightmare really reflects poorly on her ability to manage the community. It's an unfortunate set of circumstances that bought everyone to this point.
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Vent
![]() Posts: 320 |
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How is the "PR nightmare" (which only applies really to the angry people who are being properly mocked by anyone outside this issue) her fault?
The circumstances exist because crazy sexists made them exist. And please, please stop saying nonsense about how it has to do with how she got her job. One time, I got a job as a restaurant cashier because my roommate worked there, and spoilers, I had way more responsibilities than a community manager. I guess I should have been chased out, right? Or is that okay because I'm a guy? |
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TehDarkPrince
Posts: 67 |
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A mod and a community manager aren't necessarily interchangeable-- there are both on Mighty No. 9 forums. I concede that being bi-lingual and in Japan is an asset, but I don't have to repeat myself about knowing the franchise and the game mechanics. Everyone just wants brush her aside by minimizing her role to just modding posts or reporting forum activity to the devs. Maybe the Mighty No. 9 team wants the sort of manager you're describing, who isn't active in the community beyond make sure they behave, and only answers involved questions after fielding them to the team. I was fairly active on Diablo III and Starcraft 2 forums while they were in development, and if not for good CM's like Bashiok, I wouldn't give this specific complaint a second thought. Discussions can get in depth, and oftentimes request clarification from a mod or CM-- and they're not inane questions like "why is Tyrael a brotha now? lol!" There were good CMs who weren't afraid of entertaining challenging questions or criticism to a degree, and worse ones who stuck to single sentence answers that were evasive, and were conspicuously absent afterwards. Maybe Blizzard's CMs are an exception, and the ones over at Bioware, Konami or S-E just police boards for swears and avoid answers beyond "we're working to resolve this issue, sorry for the inconvenience!" I can't speak as to why you may have never heard anyone talk about a CM. One reason could be they are as unimportant as you suggest. Another could be that no one cares when someone does a good or competent job, only when they have something to complain about. Another, more relative answer could be the partition they erect between their professional and personal lives by using an online handle that isn't their real name. I'm curious, have you ever been active in an official game forum during that game's development, or right before/after launch? Like I mentioned, it was being involved in gaming forums that refined my idea of what being a community manager entails. |
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DeeTee
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Let's be clear here. That poll may as well have had two options: 1) "We were wrong to act the way we did." and 2) "No, we don't have a problem with women, it's all HER fault." That they voted for "No, no, it has nothing to do with her being a feminist, honestly" is meaningless. You may as well point to a poll with Congress agreeing they all deserve raises. Well they WOULD say that, wouldn't they? That said, there were people who genuinely thought they had legitimate grievances. Because they were systematically lied to by a handful of individuals that used screencaps of her old tweets and comments, carefully not including the parts of what she said that would have calmed everyone down. And to clarify, there's a MAJOR factor that kept this going that was WAY outside her control. The forums themselves are a disaster. Comcept used drupal. It's garbage. You can't pin a thread (which is REALLY needed when you've got certain Questions being Frequently Asked). You can't merge threads, so you've got two bad options: Either you allow people to endlessly make new threads about the same thing, or you start locking some of the new threads with a note saying to post in an existing thread devoted to the subject. She went the latter route and there were people having fits at how she was a Nazi mod for asking people to keep the topic to just two threads. You can't private message, you can't search a user's post history (so you can't just click on her name and get a quick list of things she's said), and all the threads are nested with replies collapsed by default. So to see her replies to questions you have to open a thread and start opening replies one by one. And keep in mind that it's not like there's a huge number of experienced bilingual community moderators. It's just not as established a position in Japan, and there's definitely not a history of interacting with fans that speak two very different languages. Make no mistake, there was a core of misogynistic individuals that got the ball rolling. And yes, they were very good at convincing other people that she posed a legitimate threat to the game, not just because she was a feminist. And in reacting to the absurd accusations she handled it as well as can be hoped for the most part, with a few legitimate slip-ups, but with the frankly awful drupal forums making it impossible to handle the situation well. But you can't point to those later problems and say that's all that matters, while ignoring how things got started. And while they may be a minority, the boards do still get the occasional new member saying that they'd "just heard about" the feminist that's going to ruin the game... somehow. With her feminism. And there's still people taking passive-aggressive potshots. When a user was asked not to post adult fanart of a character (because it's an all ages forum) and the fanart was taken down, someone made a new thread posting it again with some of her art mockingly photoshoped in as censor bars. Specifically the piece she did that people had been insulting for a week claiming she was trying to turn the main character female. That's not "things have moved on," that's "people tell themselves things have moved on, but things haven't really moved on." It's an embarrassment to gamers in general. |
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