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Tony, just a warning on Destiny: it's deceptive. Easily a good 4/5 of the series is spent under the impression of "any episode now, all these random, frayed plotlines are going to come together into something big, I can just feel it." It isn't until around episode forty that the reality sets in that...well...they don't, and that the plot that was being teased at the start has been sent to some mystical never-never...never-ever-ever-everland far beyond the moon where it'll never (ever, ever, ever...) return. And in the process, half the cast has been horribly taken out-of-character for the sake of achieving this nonexistant continuity or to pander to fans (or both).

Most of the irrational hatred of Kira Yamato and Lacus Clyne and Cagalli Yura Athha among the Gundam fandom? Destiny's fault, because it really ruins them good.

On a brighter note, I highly recommend you pick up the Gundam SEED Astray manga now that you've seen the series. It's an interesting read, and manages to fill in many of SEED's plotholes. And personally, I found its cast and plotline a lot more interesting and refreshing when compared to the sometimes headache-inducing anger & angst of both Gundam SEED and Gundam as a whole. Best of all, Astray's Destiny equivalent is actually one of its highlights, rather than one of its really worst aspects like the anime (hard to beat a protagonist who's a news reporter with burning shounen passion Laughing

).

I actually bought the first Destiny DVD when it was released, but saw all of the posts around that time saying how fast the series goes down hill. I decided to wait until a good portion of the rest of the series was out so I didn't have to stretch the series out over quite as many months. With the current Bandai TRSI sale and the release of over half of the DVDs I just ordered 2-8 and will now begin watching the series. I agree that it is often painful to follow a series and watch it go downhill over the course of two years. I debated getting this series during it's initial individual run. Seeing as Seed still doesn't have a brick I can only assume that Destiny will take some time before seeing a complete collection. I've also finally exhausted Bandai's catalog and am down to Love Hina, Saber Marionette, Destiny, Galaxy Angel and Cyber Formula for highest ANN rated series (only ones left in the top 600) that I don't own, so I decided to order them all besides Love Hina. If there is another Bandai sale I'll be left to choose between Clockwork Fighters, Kikaider, Super Defender Gundam, D.I.C.E, Pilot Candidate and a couple I'm sure I'm forgetting. Then again maybe I don't want Bandai's complete catalog!

I know that CN's TOONAMI discontinued the Gundam Seed AKA Cosmic Era series. I discovered that the Gundam Seed series now airs only in Canada. I also discovered on this website that it airs on YTV(the Canadian kids network). I don't have YTV. I have to live in Canada to have that network. I'm in America. Why air it only in Canada when I want to find out more about Kira Yamato's adventures with the FREEDOM GUNDAM, what will happen to Lacus Clyne, and also I was watching Gundam Seed Destiny on YOUTUBE.com the last part I watched when Orb teams up with the Earth Alliance. The Earth Alliance are the bad guys. YOUTUBE pulled the series off because someone put the series on that website illegally.

Anime World wrote:

I have to live in Canada to have that network. I'm in America. Why air it only in Canada when I want to find out more about Kira Yamato's adventures with the FREEDOM GUNDAM, what will happen to Lacus Clyne, and also I was watching Gundam Seed Destiny on YOUTUBE.com the last part I watched when Orb teams up with the Earth Alliance. The Earth Alliance are the bad guys. YOUTUBE pulled the series off because someone put the series on that website illegally.

Or you can actually buy the DVDs like I did. While the dub, and even the subtitles to a degree, aren't that great, it's definitely worth adding to your anime collection.

But as hypocritical as it sounds, I'm actually downloading Destiny right now because of the mixed reviews. I bought Vol.1 w/ the box from Best Buy already, but only because it was $14.99. If I like the series enough to buy it (meaning a rating of So-so / B- or better), then I'll gradually add the rest as time goes by.

Thanks for the heads up, Nagi. I'll look into the SEED Astray manga since it's only 3 volumes. Found them for $7 a piece at Deep Discount, so I'll try to squeeze that in with some other (pre)orders I'm planning for the month.

Tony K. wrote:

Or you can actually buy the DVDs like I did. While the dub, and even the subtitles to a degree, aren't that great, it's definitely worth adding to your anime collection.

He might not have the necessary resources to do so.

Facade19 wrote:

He might not have the necessary resources to do so.

It's his own choice in how he chooses to pursue it. When I wanted to buy something, I just saved up some money from my paychecks (or allowance when I was too young for the labor force, which took a lot longer by the way) and *faboosh~*. Of course, part of good shopping is finding bargains and such. And it's not like you have to buy it all at once.

I bought Vol.1 when it first came out, then added 3 or 4 volumes in a span of 6 months when Best Buy put them on clearance from $6.99-$11.99, then right as I noticed just how much I'd saved, I splurged and ordered the rest from Deep Discount's 20% sale by the time the whole series came out.

Altogether, it probably cost me around $120, and that was all in like, a year and a half's time (maybe two years). And theoretically, that would probably be just the right amount it would've cost for a complete box set (compared to most online places I shop at), but whatever. If SEED isn't your top anime title priority, there's no need to rush.

Anyway, I've got a few questions concering the series. I'm not sure if they might be covered in SEED Astray as Nagi alluded to, but here we go:

1. spoiler[ What was the deal with Creuset's mask? When he had it knocked off by Kira and returned to the Vesalius, he was all gasping for air and really seemed out of it. I think they mentioned something in the dialogue about acceleatrated aging, or something since he was just a clone of Mu's father? Maybe not.]

2. spoiler[ What's with the SEED berserker mode? Malcho, or whatever that blind guy's name was, said "he possesses the SEED" when he met Kira. Is it something just any Coordinator can have, or do certain conditions have to be met?]

3. spoiler[ Was that Newtype-ish sensory thing ever explained or mentioned as an ability of Coordinators, like when Mu and Creuset sensed each other or when Creuset sensed Kira? I don't recall that ever happening prior to that last battle.]

4. spoiler[ Who are Kira and Cagalli's real parents, or are they both just test tube-grown Coordinators under the care of some random foster parents?]

You know I should have listened.
One of the dumbest things I have done in my life.
I got 16 episodes of Destiny done, with having only watched 2 episodes of Seed. Yeah really stupid.
To be very honest, I actually thought that Destiny was a Gundam on its own (you know a show of its own). Well silly me. Sad

(that is why there are encyclopedias).
Well anyway I like Destiny, but after reading all the comments here, and several other forums on how Destiny is inferior to Seed, I want to give Seed a try.
I am still debating whether Seed is worth a purchase.
The owner of my local anime store (real nice guy btw) told me, after I asked him, that he could get all the 10 dvd's for me. And the price for each of them is $20.99.
He also has the the "import" for $90, but after having purchased 2 "imports' (and that was before I even realized what imports really are) I really do not want to pay $90 for bootleg material (to be honest I do not want to buy bootlegs at all).
So my questions are:
1) Do the dvd's (the offical ones) come with 5.1 sorround sound, and 16:9 (anamorphic filtering)?
2) Is there a collectors box so I can compile all the dvd's into (I know that Volume 7 comes in a big box, would that be the collectors box set)?
3) Do you guys who own Seed think it is quite worth it?

I watched quite a few Gundam series and absolutely loved them all.
Gundam 0079, 0083, MS Strike team (hope I got that one right), Gundam Wing (really loved that one), and I think G Gundam (I was young, so hard to remember).

So yeah, I am somewhat torn.

1) No. Neither SEED nor Destiny have those. They are 2.0 Dolby Digital and in 4:3 fullscreen.

2) Yes. There is a LE Vol.1 for SEED that comes with a "Complete Best" soundtrack of (most) of the OP and ED songs (and some remixes of them) as well as an artbox to hold all 10 volumes.

Destiny has two boxes; Vol.1 and Vol.7. They are foldout digipacks and have some small magnets on the outer pages (wish they would've made the release 10 volumes instead of 12, talk about milking Rolling Eyes

).

3) If you're that unsure about it, I recommend you either rent SEED or borrow it from a friend, then decide for yourself. Destiny won't make sense at this point without seeing SEED anyway, so yeah, you did kind of screw yourself already Anime smallmouth + sweatdrop

.

Don't buy bootlegs, but don't buy the DVDs from your friend for $20.99 a piece either. If you have a credit card, take advantage of Right Stuf's Bandai sale. If you use the 40% coupon and a Got Anime membership (10% on top of the 40%), the total will come to exactly $172.70 for Vol.1 + artbox, the rest of the series, and with FREE shipping.

On the other hand, you'd be paying at least $188.91 for Vol.2-10 from your friend, and that doesn't include the LE Vol.1 or tax or whatever, so that'll more than likely set you over $200. I gave the series an Excellent / A. Seeing as how you liked all of those other Gundam titles you listed, I'm confident you'll really like SEED.

Not sure what your preference is either, but when you do watch SEED, I recommend you try to watch it subbed. I'm a big fan of Ocean-Vancouver, but they dropped the ball on this one. It's not terrible or anything, but it's pretty sloppy compared to their work in Wing. Stilted dialogue, a few miscast voices, and some really weak delivery make it very lackluster, especially at some of the more dramatic parts, and that's a shame.

Last edited by ikillchicken on Sun Apr 01, 2007 1:13 am; edited 1 time in total

Tony K. wrote:

1. spoiler[ What was the deal with Creuset's mask? When he had it knocked off by Kira and returned to the Vesalius, he was all gasping for air and really seemed out of it. I think they mentioned something in the dialogue about acceleatrated aging, or something since he was just a clone of Mu's father? Maybe not.]

2. spoiler[ What's with the SEED berserker mode? Malcho, or whatever that blind guy's name was, said "he possesses the SEED" when he met Kira. Is it something just any Coordinator can have, or do certain conditions have to be met?]

3. spoiler[ Was that Newtype-ish sensory thing ever explained or mentioned as an ability of Coordinators, like when Mu and Creuset sensed each other or when Creuset sensed Kira? I don't recall that ever happening prior to that last battle.]

4. spoiler[ Who are Kira and Cagalli's real parents, or are they both just test tube-grown Coordinators under the care of some random foster parents?]

Alot of these question have no clear awnsers as they just arent clearly explained. Here is the best awnsers I can give.

1. spoiler[It isnt ever really made that clear. I would guess that he has some kind of deformity or something. The mask itself probly isnt related to him being all freaked out. I think its more just that whenever he pilots his MS or is in a dangerous/exciting situation he needs his pills. Its definitely some kinda condition related to him being a genetically altered and messed up clone.]

2. spoiler[I dont think he's blind. as for your question, No i dont think all of em have it. Just some of em.The berserker thing isnt the same as the SEED thing. EDIT: yeah, Nagisa's explanation of the SEEDs is good.]

3. spoiler[Mu and Creuset sense eachother like that many times throughout the series. I think it is less of a coordinator thing and more a clone thing. Idunno about him sensing Kira. Then again Nagisa could also be right. The whole newtype thing isnt as clear as in past series. Its nore of a vauge thing were it could also just be passed off as natural ability rather than an actual condition.]

4. spoiler[Their parents are the doctor and his wife who invented the articifcial womb and the whole ultimate coordinator project. Kira is made in the articifical womb but using DNA from them. Cagalli is born naturally. The parents that raised em are all foster parents.]

By the way, though I would definitely recomend reading ASTRAY, dont expect awnsers to these questions. Its more side stories that dont realate THAT much to the rest of the story.

Tony K. wrote:

1. spoiler[ What was the deal with Creuset's mask? When he had it knocked off by Kira and returned to the Vesalius, he was all gasping for air and really seemed out of it. I think they mentioned something in the dialogue about acceleatrated aging, or something since he was just a clone of Mu's father? Maybe not.]

spoiler[They never specifically say what the deal with Raww's mask is, and until they showed his face in the SEED compilation movies, the prevalent theory was that his defective aging process had disfigured him somehow (which turned out not to be the case at all, as he looks quite normal underneath). Personally, my theory is that it was either to hide his Natural heritage in the Coordinator-dominated PLANTs (seeing that he was cloned from a Natural aristocrat), or that it was some sort of symbolism, like an executioner's hood to go along with his theory of being judge, jury, and executioner of all mankind.]

Tony K. wrote:

2. spoiler[ What's with the SEED berserker mode? Malcho, or whatever that blind guy's name was, said "he possesses the SEED" when he met Kira. Is it something just any Coordinator can have, or do certain conditions have to be met?]

spoiler[SEED, from what little information we've been given, is basically an evolutionary quirk that both Naturals and Coordinators can have. It's essentially Cosmic Era's Newtype mutation, as those that carry the SEED (acronym for Superior Evolutionary Element Destined-Factor) are the ones capable of bringing about the next evolution of humanity. Again, it's something both Naturals and Coordinators can have, though unfortunately the only Natural we ever see with it is Cagalli, as I recall, and strangely no Astray characters ever carry it.]

Tony K. wrote:

3. spoiler[ Was that Newtype-ish sensory thing ever explained or mentioned as an ability of Coordinators, like when Mu and Creuset sensed each other or when Creuset sensed Kira? I don't recall that ever happening prior to that last battle.]

spoiler[Based on comments made in interviews by director Fukuda, I think Newtypes were originally meant to be a part of the storyline, but any concrete mention of them was later removed. All that's really ever mentioned is that there are "people with superior spatial awareness," who are the only ones with the mental ability to control remote weapons like the gunbarrels on Mwu's Moebius Zero mobile armor (Destiny later invents some magical "spatial awareness computer" so that characters like Sting and Stella can magically use the same weapons). According to Fukuda, Mwu and Raww were supposed to be "the last of the Newtypes," but several characters in Destiny and Astray (Rey, Neo, Morgan, Prayer) are also basically confirmed to be Newtypes, and Newtype abilities seem to have somehow cropped up as a side effect of Kira's 'Ultimate Coordinator" status. There's also mention in various supplemental materials that the Alliance had a whole corps of Newtypes piloting Moebius Zero units until they got wiped out by a CYCLOPS planted on the lunar surface (Mwu and whoever Prayer was cloned from being the only known survivors).

Basically, Newtypes in SEED are treated with a "wink wink, nudge nudge, eh eh?" sort of attitude.]

Tony K. wrote:

4. spoiler[ Who are Kira and Cagalli's real parents, or are they both just test tube-grown Coordinators under the care of some random foster parents?]

spoiler[Kira and Cagalli's real parents are the scientists in charge of the Ultimate Coordinator project, Ulen & Via Hibiki. They're shown in a flashback at some point, Via pregnant with Cagalli pleading with her husband to stop the Ultimate Coordinator project. Kira was the test-tube one, while Cagalli was 100% Natural.]

D'oh, I remember now. spoiler[ About Kira and Callgi's parents when Creuset was telling his little schpiel about the Ultimate Coordinator thing, and how they kept showing some of the failures of other attempted Coordinator babies, then the Dr. directing his attention towards his own. And Mrs. Hibiki was all stressed out and against it and stuff until both of them were born. They played that flashback rather quickly, and I think my mind was trying to figure out another plot element at the time...] Thanks for the reminder.

I'm going to try and watch Destiny this coming week and finish it around Friday or Saturday. I guess I'll just keep this thread around for all intents and purposes concerning the SEED franchise or any other relevant Gundam parallels.

My own personal theory on Creuset was that spoiler[ because he was a clone. He couldn't bear seeing his face (Al Da Flagga's face) in the mirror because it reminded him of what he was.]

My big question while we are on them is what is the deal with the big spoiler[Space whale] I understand that it might be symbolic for evolution, but it seems a tad odd since it doesn't seem to tie into anything on a plot level. I kept expecting to see these spoiler[giant space whales suddenly appearing in Seed] Will it all become clear in Destiny? This concept also establishes that spoiler[aliens do exist in the Seed universe] yet this is never exploited in Seed. It just seems a bit weird and out of place for Gundam.

I'm pretty sure the space whale was never mentioned in Destiny. I think it pops up in one of the manga, but I'm not sure on that. Maybe the movie that is supposed to be coming out (which I haven't heard anything on in a long time) will reveal spoiler[that a super-evolved space whale saved Mwu by teleporting him out of his mobile suit at the last milisecond Rolling Eyes

]

Randall Miyashiro wrote:

Will it all become clear in Destiny?

Nope. Not only does Destiny never resolve the loose ends it creates for itself, but it doesn't even come within a mile of SEED's loose ends. Destiny tells us nothing about the SEED Factor, Cosmic Era Newtypes, space whales, or anything else that SEED left for it to answer.

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